For the Fowlers Podcast
Introducing "For the Fowlers," a new waterfowl hunting podcast based in Northern California. Our goal is to dive into every aspect of this sport we're so passionate about.
We aim to create a valuable resource for new hunters, helping them get into the sport, while also engaging experienced fowlers with our stories and those of our guests.
For the Fowlers Podcast
Leasing Blinds, Training your Pup, And Building A Life Around Waterfowl
The season’s opener finds us at duck camp in Calusa with blinds to brush, dogs at our feet, and a full tank of optimism. We didn’t hunt opening day—and that’s exactly why this conversation matters. We unpack the real work behind a good season: how you earn access, build relationships, and prepare a blind that performs on the slow days, not just the hero days.
Chuck joins to share a decade of lessons moving from Los Banos refuges to the Sacramento Valley’s rice. We break down how guided hunts can kickstart your journey, how farmer timelines drive when Opening Day truly is, and how to think about leasing a blind without confusing access for guaranteed straps. If you’re eyeing rice country, you’ll hear what “under the flight line” really means, how concealment beats decoy counts most days, and why the best blinds rarely open up when you want them.
We also spotlight "Pepper", Chuck's 5 year old lab with a big motor, and the training that keeps her safe and steady. From force fetch as a true conservation tool to an extended place away from the pit, you’ll get practical, field-tested dog tips you can use immediately.
We round out with guns and shells—when a nimble 20-gauge shines in pits, why bismuth makes better table fare, and how to choose loads that match realistic shot windows.
Whether you’re a new hunter plotting your first guided trip or a veteran considering a lease, this is a clear, candid look at what actually moves the needle in Sac Valley waterfowl.
Subscribe, share with your blind crew, and drop a review with your favorite early-season ritual—what’s one prep step you swear by?
All right, welcome to another episode of For the Fowlers, episode two. I'm Brandon. Caton's not here today, but uh got another good buddy that we'll bring on here in a few minutes, and uh we'll get this episode running. But want to thank all the uh listeners and followers on Instagram. Episode one was a huge success. You know, the uh stats are coming in as we speak. I think uh as of this morning we had just about 80 individual downloads. I was looking at it, that's from seven different states, listeners up and down the state of California, so that's awesome. We're not only getting folks here in the Sacramento area, but getting folks down in the Central Coast and Southern California, so it's uh been really, really exciting this past week. So once again, follow us on uh for the Fowlers on Instagram, and you could follow us and listen to our podcasts on Spotify and Apple. All right, so it is opening day for balance of the state, and uh we're coming to you live from duck camp up here in uh Calusa, California, and you know, opening weekend, and unfortunately we didn't get a chance to get out and hunt today, and we'll talk a little bit about that. But it's been good. We were out doing some work, brushing up some blinds earlier today, and but unfortunately we weren't able to get out and actually get after those ducks. So, but I was up here in Calusa yesterday afternoon and had a good afternoon, you know, in town, went to Calusa, went to Kittle's. I had to drop off a uh shotgun over at Grayson at Field and Range Solutions, shotgun that I was using a couple weeks ago, and I just noticed giving me a little bit of problems uh as we get ready for the season here. So uh it's a backup gun, so I dropped it off to Grayson, and he'll get that back in a couple weeks. So Grayson, good dude. It was good catching up with him. We talked, we're gonna hopefully get him here on the uh podcast here sooner than later. But yeah, it was a good afternoon. Went from Calusa, headed up north, kind of through the valley, all the way up to Lon Oseco. Saw tons of birds in the area, tons of specks, some ducks. Yeah, it was a it was a good afternoon. But yeah, the plan was, and I think you guys saw on Instagram, we uh did not have any success with the reszies uh for this opening weekend. So the plan was to uh lotto on at one of the local refuges, and it just didn't quite work out. Not a lot of water up here right now, and they're not handing out a lot of resis, and you know, the free roam quotas are really down, so it was gonna be a long shot to get on this morning for uh shoot light. And I have an event down in uh the Bay Area that I got to get back for today. So I wasn't able to do the sweat line and uh you know spend all day trying to get on this afternoon. So we decided to uh get out here and do a little work at some of the blinds up here, brushing those up, getting those ready. You know, those farmers are hard at work right now, making sure those rice fields get mowed, but we'll hopefully be getting some water up here soon, and we'll get these guys with these rice blinds off and running this season. But yeah, I mentioned we got a good buddy with us today. We talked a little bit about him on our last episode. It's our good buddy uh Charlie, aka Chuck. Chuck and I go back over 10 years we met at work when we both worked for the same company about 10 years ago, and uh I was into waterfowl hunting, he's been hunting much longer than I have been, but uh you know it was good we bonded over that and you know kind of showed me some new things that uh you know I hadn't been exposed to when it came to the waterfowl community and hunting and stuff like that. So hopefully we'll hear a little bit about that today. But let's bring them on here. Chuck, welcome to For the Fowlers.
SPEAKER_00:How are we doing? Good to be here.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, good, happy to have you, man. Uh thanks for hosting us here at Duck Camp.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so Chuck, I said, you know, obviously we met at work, you've been waterfowl hunting for quite a while. Uh why don't you tell the listeners a little bit about yourself and how you got into uh you know how you started duck hunting and and where you're at now?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, kind of a long story, but I'll give you the highlighter points on it. So growing up, my dad, he he's from the east coast and grew up as a big deer hunter, big quail hunter, some duck, you know, where he's from, it was a lot of a lot of upland hunting and a lot of deer hunting, but he always had the love for it and the passion for it. And where I was actually born in Texas, and when I was a young one, my dad was still a deer hunter and whatnot. But as I started getting a little older and we moved out to California, I was a baseball player, so pretty much like all the time eat, sleep, baseball, you know, that was like my my true hobby and passion. But even at a young age, I was a kind of an outdoorsman, I would say, like to fish, just like being outside, whatever, camping. But I as my baseball career was kind of slowing down, I I played a couple years in college, but nothing crazy. And uh around that same time, a couple of my my good friends, they had some property just outside of where we lived, and so we go shoot guns and do some stuff at their house. And the first time I shot a shotgun, I'm pretty sure my eyes like lit up with wow, I'm hooked. This is amazing. And I think probably the next that next fall, because I probably shot with them in a summer or something, or maybe it was can't quite remember, but that that next dove season, you know, they were like, You gotta get you gotta get your hunting license, you gotta come dove hunt because they had some property and some dove out there, and so between that first time I shot and dove season, I got my hunting license and did everything. I was probably 17, maybe 18. And so I went out with them, had a dove hunt. We actually had a pretty decent hunt for the first time, and I remember I shot that first dove and I was hooked, so that's kind of the long-winded story because as soon as I dove hunted, you know, I I'd already kind of been introduced or was curious about duck hunting, and so dove hunting quickly turned to duck hunting. And where I grew up in the South Bay, you have Los Banos not too far, and so just in the community, people talked a lot about duck hunting, and so my dad, who was a previous hunter, was fired up that I was now into hunting, and my baseball career slowed down, so our relationship really kind of flourished and bonded more so because of the hunting, right? And so we go out to Los Banos and we start trekking around out there, and I can remember like it was yesterday. I think my first like waterfowl, let's just call it that I shot was a coot. And my dad, I he was so happy for me because I think he just saw like the excitement, and at that point I was still obviously very new to duck hunting, so I didn't know the difference between all the birds. I knew what a mallard was, obviously, but I didn't know like all the other species. So I saw this bird sitting on the water, and my dad knew what it was, and but he just wasn't gonna stop me, so I shot it, and it was like in some deeper water. My old man actually went swimming to get this bird for me, and we ended up eating this thing. So I've eaten a coot, like I'm embarrassed to even tell this story, frankly. But I think truly it just kind of encapsulates like everything for duck hunting for me. It's it's a passion personally, it's a relationship between my father and I, and that was really like where it all started.
SPEAKER_01:So so I gotta ask that coot, because I've heard of you know folks that actually do enjoy eating them. But how did you guys eat that coot? Do you remember? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So my dad's from like you could argue the South, and so everything that he grew up eating was fried and battered.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So we fried and battered and ate that coot. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Nice. Awesome. Well, you mentioned obviously, you know, living in the South Bay and spending some time in the grasslands. And you know, when when we met, obviously you were living down there, and I knew you were hunting banos most weekends, and you know, getting out there and you know, putting in for the lotto and getting your number and you know, making that trek over there uh you know every Saturday and Sunday. But uh, you know, I know now you live up in the North Bay, and you know, I feel like since you moved from the South Bay to the North Bay, where you hunt has changed a little bit. You know, I I know you do some hunting in the Sassoon Marsh, obviously spending more time up here in the Sacramento Valley. Talk a little bit about that transition from the grasslands to you know the Sack Valley hunting.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, and you know, I talked a lot about baseball. I've always you know been kind of obsessive about my hobbies and passion. And from the time I killed that first bird or really became a hunter, like I just obsessed over it. So again, Los Panos was the closest thing for me. There were a few other places that you could hunt, but truly like hunting ducks, setting out decoys, working birds in, like that happened in Los Panos. And so whether it was opening day, slow November, like it didn't matter. We were I was out there every chance I got. And at that time too, like going through college and you know, before I started my career, like I made time. So whether it was Wednesday, Saturday, or Sunday, I was out there, and so I spent time between Los Banos, you know, San Luis, all the refuges down there. And you know, I I would say probably within four or five years, I I matched that learning curve pretty quick because I had a lot of bad hunts, but in between some of those bad hunts, we had some really good hunts and we found some good spots. But so it, yeah, obviously I started down in Los Banos and then moved up to the North Bay, naturally hunted Grizzly Island. I still love Grizzly Island, you know, it's got a soft spot in my heart because I've had some great hunts out there. But as I've moved up to the North Bay, like the Mecca, the epicenter for waterfowl in California is Sack Valley. So that's really what kind of drew me towards the Sack Valley was the opportunities and just the species, and you know, there's more space out here, frankly.
SPEAKER_01:For sure. We were talking a little bit earlier about how you know the idea for this podcast is to be something where like new hunters or people that want to get into the sport can uh you know listen and and feel a little comfortable like where to get their their start at. And uh we were talking a little bit about the Sack Valley, and you told me a story about how you know your buddies are kind of scattered all over Northern California, even some up in northern Nevada. And you know, really I said, Hey, how'd you guys get into the Sack Valley and you know, rice blinds and rice hunting and all that? And you talked about you know getting together for a guided hunt, you know, to get the group together, but also you know, it's a good opportunity for folks who are looking to get into the sport, get out with a guide and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean what drew me to a guided hunt was like I mean, this was probably it's hard for me to think about it now because the years just seem to blend together, but it was probably 10 or 12 years ago. I, you know, and really at that point, my best friends that I grew up with, who I still am super fortunate enough to, those are my hunting buddies, like everybody had just things happened, you know, moved away, whatever, work, life. And so we always wanted to hunt together, but trying to draw a resie on the weekends that were available for us to hunt was it's nearly impossible, right? To line those dates up. So, you know, we all just got together and we're like, how do we how do we make this happen? And so I reached out to a guide service that I honestly just found on watching uh the outdoor channel. Uh I think it was the you know, uh I can't even think of them right now, but anyways, I it was just on a show, advertised, called up the guide, had no idea what I was doing. You know, I'd been up into rice country maybe once or twice before, really didn't know what a rice hunt was really all about at that point. But uh I got uh got out with a guide and honestly, it was it wasn't a whole lot different than what we were doing, right? It was guys hanging out, you know, shooting, missing, having a good time. And you know, the at that time there were it was two of my buddies and my dad, and after that, we had a great hunt, just had an amazing experience, and I kept in touch with that guide, and I'm still pretty good buddies with him to that to this day. And I've accredited that relationship to a lot of my opportunities, you know, from a leasing standpoint or an access standpoint, but that experience just showed me like what it was like and what it was gonna take to have a blind and do all that, and just gave me a little touch of experience and knowledge, and then from there it just kind of bloomed.
SPEAKER_01:So nice. Well, you mentioned leasing and access and stuff like that, and that's really what I wanted to kind of pick your brain about today. But you know, before we get into that, just to kind of put a bow on you know your background in hunting, and you know, obviously you've been doing it since I think you said high school, uh college time. Really kind of a blanket question here, but maybe you can kind of think of one or two examples. Uh, what do you enjoy most about waterfowl hunting?
SPEAKER_00:You know, oh man. I honestly I I feel like I live for it these days, but you know, I got my dog right here at my feet right now. I mean, that's a huge reason, you know. She she loves it. I love being out there, it's so rewarding too. But I talked about the friends, the family, like at this point in my life, that's that's pepper. That's really what it's about. And just getting to spend time with my best friends, my close flank family members, my dog, seeing the sunrise in the morning, like just being able to interact with the the ducks and the geese too. Like, I think what hook mine and sinkered me was the calling and working birds. Like when I saw a mallard take a comeback haul and turn and work into the wind and finish in the decoys where I wanted them to, and we killed them like we want to, and saw the dog go get it right, like that changed it for me for sure. And to this point now, like I mean, everybody likes to trigger pull, you know. We're we're not out there for just to watch the sunrise, right? But I mean, sometimes maybe, but at the end of the day, like you you want to put some birds in the bag, and I just saw how responsive the birds were and that interaction with them. Oh my gosh, that's really what did it for me. But a culmination of all those things, like it's the fellowship with your friends, like the meaning of being out in nature and connecting, you know, the hard work of you know, spending time with the dog, the hard work putting the blinds together. It's all work, but it's super rewarding when it pays off. And then to to be like, you know, with the buttes in the background or you know, later in the year when there's snow on the mountain ridges, like I mean, it is I think it's the most beautiful place on on the planet, and you know, it's what it's what I want to do with my time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's exactly what we were talking about earlier today, is uh, you know, especially for those new hunters out there, everyone thinks it's oh, I'll just go out there sitting the blind and uh you know pull the trigger. It's like, yeah, that that you can have those days, but you know, what really I think draws most of us to waterfowl hunting, like you said, is watching those birds work. Obviously, I love you know watching the pups, you know, do their retrieves and watching you guys with your hand signals and different stuff. You know, that that's really cool. And then obviously, just kind of what we were doing today, getting out there, putting the work in, you know, we'll probably look back, you know, next month or December, January and be like, hey, it was all worth it because you know we're able to enjoy those hunts because we put the work in early in the season, but and the camaraderie, right? Like like the network of hunters that I've got to meet and just different sportsmen, whether it's you know back home or up here when we get up here into duck country or just hanging around camp, you know, meeting meeting your buddies. Uh you know, it it's a it's a good group and yeah, it's a lot of fun for sure. So well, I know we've been talking a little bit about it. Let's talk about this upcoming season. I know I mentioned it's opening day here. We were out doing some work this morning and early this afternoon, but you know, we'll be pulling the trigger here in the coming days. And you know, kind of what's your uh outlook? How do you think this season's gonna pan out?
SPEAKER_00:I think this brings up like another great duck point, but like hunters optimism. Oh yeah. You have to be at a 10 out of a 10. Yep. And not to like get off topic, but like if you're deer hunting, you have to think you're gonna shoot a deer around every corner. Otherwise, you're gonna lose interest or stop paying attention, and then there's gonna be your opportunity, you're gonna miss it. So I think if I could just summarize like the upcoming season and probably any season ahead of me in the future, it's optimism. And you know, truly like again, what I know I can control is like who I hunt with, where I hunt, and the preparation. But as far as the birds and what they do, I mean, Mother Nature plays plays her game, and I mean this year already the rain's already changed the game a little bit, but hey, it's just part of it. So my optimism is high, and you know, it just like I think we could talk about all the things that happened in the state over the last few years, but like with some of the water, you know, changes and how they manage habitat, whether it's up in Klamath or even here in the Sack Valley or down in the bay, like the obviously CWA, Ducks Unlimited, the state, whatever people are actively making progress towards our sport. And I personally feel like everyone talks about the old days, the old days. Well, I feel like there's never been as many people interested in the sport in a sense of conservation and trying to do all the right stuff. So I'm again back to the optimism standpoint, like everything in our control as people, we've done we've done our part, right? We just gotta wait for the birds now, I guess.
SPEAKER_01:So for sure. I love that optimism. I mean, we all were chomping at the bit, you know, the last few months, just waiting for this day to come, and uh, you know, we'll see how it turns out. But it's funny you mentioned duck hunters, like we're all like the world's biggest biologists, you know, ag experts, weather people, like you know, we we know it all, right?
SPEAKER_00:So on that topic, I don't want to cut you off, but like one of my favorite things about duck hunters, you go to any duck hunter at the check station, and it's like, what weather app do you use, or what hey, Windfinder said this, or hey, how are you like uh you know, how late are you gonna stay out, or when are you gonna hunt? Like, we're all using these crazy apps for sure. You know, it's becomes obsessive, but that's part of the support, that's what makes it fun.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Well, you know, I don't know we don't have to dive too much into it, but we were talking a little bit about the weather. We obviously had some rain this past week up in Northern California, and you know, we were talking about uh, you know, the farmers are out, you know, mowing their fields and getting things ready. But you know, maybe just kind of uh update on your blind situation and uh how things are going in in your world. Because I know that you with your group, you guys have a handful of blinds that you guys lease uh throughout the Sacramento Valley. And like with a lot of folks, you know, they weren't ready to hunt today, but uh maybe just a little update on you know what's going on there and a little bit about your relationship, you know, that you have with the farmer when it comes to uh leasing rice blinds.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, just an update on the blind situation. I mean, again, every year, like duck season for me in my head kind of starts in October because optimistically, you know, you're brushing blinds and you're collecting your Johnson grass bundles, whatever it is before opening day, because like at the end of the day, like you just got to be ready. And from a farming standpoint, obviously that's the number one thing from a the from a rice standpoint. Like these get these farmers are working hard, you know. I mean, right now they're running as many hours of the day as they possibly can to get their crop out, and so as a hunter, you have to be patient with that. But again, back to what can you can control? It's like I can control the prep work. So I'm hyper focused on that. As soon as I get the call that the field's been cut or dissed or hey, water's a few days out, you know, I'll at that point I'll obviously brush the blinds in, do whatever I need to do, get the gear ready. That way, when we get to go ahead, we're ready to hunt. But I think, you know, I I've been fortunate in past years where we've had blinds ready for opening day. I've had years where you know, we're not hunting until first, second week of November or even later. But again, it's all has to do with Mother Nature, it all has to do with the farmer schedule. And I think kind of leading into the next topic about how do you lease ground. I mean, the guys that I know who do lease, like the people that kick out first, are the ones who don't understand that the farming comes first. Absolutely. The hunting is really just a byproduct of it, and again, fortunately, from a habitat standpoint, from a duck conservation standpoint, it's tremendous for waterfowl. And there's motivation for these farmers to, you know, put put water and decomp their rice in that fashion. But at the at the end of the day, like, you know, I've I've already talked to a few farmers this year who who burnt, you know, their their rice straw instead of decomping it. So, you know, that that's just part of the game. You know, I've also had years where we didn't get planted and we were fallow, and you kind of look at your property and you're like, how am I gonna make this work? And you know, we've had great years in fallow, we've had challenging years in fallow, but uh yeah, I I mean I think the uh the farming pieces it's unique in and every year, and you just got to kind of roll with it.
SPEAKER_01:So I know you you're not necessarily an expert on the agriculture side, but you you mentioned you know the decomp and fallow and stuff like that for those listeners who are just getting into it or maybe you know spend time on the refuge or you know hunt the bay or delta. You know, can you talk a little bit about that? What do you mean by uh you know decomp in the fields and fallow fields?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I and uh I think y'all said it on the previous podcast. Like, none of we're not experts, and I definitely claim not I'm not an expert on this. I think what it is is I'm just kind of an obsessive duck hunting dork at this point. And so like I enjoy driving around and watching like the harvesters out there and like are they baling their hay or are they just leaving in the field? Who knows?
SPEAKER_01:That's what I was doing last night.
SPEAKER_00:It's just I I mean, a few years ago I really geeked out and went down the YouTube rabbit hole and watched it all. So I've that's some of where I've learned it. But fortunately, too, with my relationships, I've learned a little bit firsthand just from talking to farmers and and guys who run businesses out here. But yeah, I mean, just to simplify the equation, like obviously they go in, harvest the harvest the rice, and then you know, there's straw left in the field, and those farmers have to do something with that straw, otherwise they they can't use the ground next year, right? So there's a decomp process involved, and the the best thing for us hunters is the water, but obviously that has to go in with uh water availability. You know, years ago they used to burn more of it, right? Now they're doing more decomp water, but there's still some burning, so you know, all that plays a factor in the hunting, whether you're getting dissed or stomped too, which again for the listeners, like dissed meaning basically putting the rice straw back in the ground. Stomped, it's another form of that too. But back to the fallow piece, right? So farmers will rotate the fields, so that might be a reason why you know you're fallow. Obviously, the farmers want to get as much rice in the ground as possible, but again, it could have to do with a lot of things, it could have to do with spring rain and and the fields being a certain way, so they can't or they can or whatever. So that plays a factor in whether a field's maybe farmed or or not farmed.
SPEAKER_01:So well, you know, you mentioned you know, talking about leasing your your blinds, and I know that you uh are kind of the uh the leader of your club or group, you know, you you have the relationship with uh you know the folks that are leasing out those blinds. Talk you talk a little bit about the process when it comes to leasing those. You know, obviously, does it start right at the end of the previous season, or you know, when does it really start picking up, you know, stuff like that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, le so yeah, leasing is kind of a crazy game, it feels like you know, there there's there's a lot of blinds available, it seems like, but really it's kind of about where do you want to go? I'd say it's kind of like renting an apartment, you know, it's like what what do you like about this place versus that one? And you know, the guy that I currently lease from, I can't say enough good things about him. He's super communicative, he's great about keeping you up to speed on what's going on. You know, if you have a problem at your blind, he'll be he'll answer his phone and take care of it. You know, I've had other situations where that relationship isn't as strong. And hey, you know, to each their own, are you know, obviously. But the the guy that I lease from, he's amazing for it. And how I found him was back to my initial first guided hunt. So the first blind, I I actually maybe a second or third blind I ever leased was through that guide that I first went through. And but through him, I've been introduced to a few people, and and it's just like I guess you could ask my guys in the blind, and I always kind of joke about this, like everybody's got a job in the blind, and you know, something that I've just found a knack for is just trying to get to know people, and a lot of times it's really just because I like talking about ducks, yeah, and uh I like being involved in the community, and so but back to like just finding places, I mean, there's a lot of ways to do it, whether it's you know, you jump on social media or something, or you just Google search, right? And you can find a lot of things that way, and there's certain guys that advertise and certain guys that are more word of mouth. And again, it just kind of depends on like what you're looking for, the areas, because a lot of times the guys who do have ground to lease, it's they kind of have an area, so it might be you know the Upper Butte, you know, valley, it could be you know YOLO area, it could be Calusa, it could be Willows, William, whatever it might be. And so I would say like if you're looking to just lease ground, like first off, just try to figure out the general area that you're looking for, and then just probably the word of mouth game is the best, and then you know, looking up reviews and trying to understand what people are about. But I again I think this is such a relationship business where you know you got to be careful, you got to be smart, be respectful, and and just go about it the right way and ask the right questions. And through that kind of research and discovery, you that's probably the best way to do it.
SPEAKER_01:So, yeah, you know, from the sidelines here, I've been able to kind of see your relationship with you know the guy that you lease your properties from, and I know you guys have a good rapport, and you know, I think there's a mutual trust and and whatnot, and you know, obviously the communications there, which is huge. You know, I saw it today, but yeah, no, that that's great. And obviously, you know, for you new hunters out there, I would say just kind of be patient too. Like, you know, sometimes you might get a blind that you know it's in kind of an up-and-coming field or an up-and-a-part of the flyway, and it's not always going to be lights out, but you know, just trust the folks that you're working with. Like Charlie said, read the reviews, get to know the area. But you know, obviously, the you know, the relationship that you have with you know the folks that you're leasing with, that goes a long way when it comes to getting those uh kind of prime locations.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and and to take it a step further too, like a lot like there's never a good blind available when you want a blind. Blinds don't come available on your schedule. Right. Because most of the good blinds are blinds that you've had to work towards, right? You might have to be leasing from the same property for 10, 15 years become before one of the top two or three blinds ever becomes available. And it's a lot of times it's a pecking order. So whoever's been there the longest, if somebody vacates a blind, it kind of works its way down. And and I think too, it's like everybody wants to go out and you know, have heavy straps, and I think sometimes when it comes to leasing, it's you just gotta manage your own personal expectations. And I would say, like, if you're hunting on a refuge on a really good day at a good time of the year, you probably have a really good chance of going out and killing birds, right? Sometimes when it comes to leasing, it's not always that simple. And I think like what I always tell myself is hey, every year there's there's gonna be a few days where you're gonna get into them, and they're just gonna do it, and and you're gonna pat yourself on the back, high-five your buddies, and walk out with you know, grins on your face. But for all those times that you want to have those good hunts, there's also a good chunk of the hunts that are average, you know, and you go out and shoot a few birds, and those are good days too. And then there's gonna be those days where you just get get eat up by mosquitoes and catch a suntan, right? And all those days kind of accumulate together into a season. And so back to just the leasing thing. I think the if somebody's getting into leasing, like have manageable expectations. Just because you're paying for access doesn't mean you're paying for birds. Absolutely. What you're paying for, and what I love the most about leasing, is when when I want to go hunting, when my dad comes in from out of town and he wants to go hunting, a good friend of ours wants to go who maybe only goes out a couple times a year, we have a spot. Absolutely. And if you're in the blind, there's a chance, there's always a chance you might get to see something really cool. I mean, last year, I mean, I remember a hunt with you and you and I early in the season, and you know, uh there weren't a lot of birds in the area, but I think we ended up killing maybe two ducks and a goose, and I'll tell you the spec that we shot that day did it about as good as I've seen a speck do it in years. So that that's that's part of it, but yeah, you know what's interesting.
SPEAKER_01:Caitlin and I were talking on the last episode, and you were just kind of mentioning it, is uh, you know, sometimes you go out and the weather could be just right, the winds, you know, howling in from the north, and you go out there, you got the whether it's on the refuge or at your rice, you know, you got a great spot, and just the birds just don't want to, they're not doing it, right? But then you go out and you know, it can be a warm bluebird day, you're not expecting anything, and that's when you absolutely get into them. So, no, it's nice, but like you said, it's the access, um, it's the ability to go and have that flexibility that you know you can you know be in that spot on those storm days, or you know, if you have a morning with not much going on, you know, back home and you're like, Hey, I'm gonna go sit in the blind for a few hours, and you get into a couple, that's a good day.
SPEAKER_00:You know, and Skip, as I'm sitting over here thinking through what we've been talking about, I um back to just finding a good spot to you. Like I I I I have a another mentor friend of mine who this guy's just a straight killer, and I was asking him one day, I was like, How do you kind of assess a blind? He's like, the only thing you can do is get under them. So there's true flight paths that these birds fly. And part of the reason why Sack Valley, I think, is what it is, is because you have all these natural wetlands and these historic rivers and creeks that these birds have always flown. And so if you're looking for a blind area too, like throughout the season, you know, I I do I take a different way home most of the time on my way out of the valley, and I'm just kind of looking to see the flight of birds. And you know, you can't always get on the X as far as where they want to be that day, but if you can get yourself positioned where you're as close to under the flight path as possible, you have a good chance of getting into them throughout the year.
SPEAKER_01:So for sure. Uh, just something real random here, and you might have mentioned it earlier, but I just heard you you call you called me skip, and I was gonna you know call that out earlier, and uh you know, we talked, I think. Said how Charlie and I have known each other for over like 10 years, and where Skip comes from is uh when we were working together at the same company, uh I put together a uh softball team and I was managing that one. And Charlie being the baseball player uh since that day has been calling me Skip. So uh no, that's pretty funny right there.
SPEAKER_00:He's a great skipper, by the way. Great skipper. I've uh I've played a lot of baseball, a lot of softball. I've been on a lot of teams. I have never won a championship in my life, which I I'd probably die and never have won a championship. But the closest I ever got to winning a championship was with you, so that's why you're gonna be coined Skip for the rest of eternity.
SPEAKER_01:I love it, I love it. You know, going back to the blinds, and and we'll kind of uh wrap up this this part of the podcast or this topic, but you know, you have your fields. Talk a little bit about you know the blind and the field prep that you know you and your your guys are doing, you know, decoys, cover, etc. Talk a little bit about that when you guys get started and and you know, obviously getting ready for you know the first time you guys are gonna you know be packed in the in the pit or but also kind of some of the work you have to do as the season goes on to kind of maintain those fields.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, duck hunting I mean I guess hunting in general, a lot of it is work with some reward at the end of it, and when it comes to like working the blind, I would say that that uh sorry, pepper's barking in the background.
SPEAKER_01:Now we're out here at duck camp and we got some guys pulling in their trailers, so uh she's distracting us, but uh pepper.
SPEAKER_00:But yeah, as far as like the prep work goes, like I mean, and again, this is me being obsessive in a duck dork. Like, I mean, I'm I'm working on duck season year-round, whether that's like painting decoys or re-rigging up decoys or just you know getting our our cover kind of situated, whether that's like flip lids or you know, we have a a few systems that work really well for us, but there there's like constant work for me. I like it though, so it's not necessarily work, but I would say in my mind, I always kind of circle like October 1st as like the start of duck season because again, like if you're fortunate enough to get harvested early, then you're ready to rock. And but yeah, I mean, really like step one when it comes to like getting the your your your blinds ready is really just getting out to the field and you know collecting Johnson grass, creating Johnson grass bundles, you know, getting your rice straw to to mat down around your blind so it doesn't get too muddy. If you're fortunate enough to get yourself on some your hands on some some rice bales, those go a long way. Historically, those have saved us for sure. But yeah, you get out to that blind for the first time, you never really know what you're getting yourself into, you know, unless you've checked it out in the offseason. But sometimes I've walked out there and had the the levees with the Johnson grass, you know, six, seven feet tall and really thick. I've gone out there before where you know we had one year where we were in a fallow field and the the farmer had replaced our pit. I'm sorry, the farmer, the the guy we leased from had replaced our pit, which was great. We had a brand new pit, but with that, you know, there was not as much cover growing around the blind. So I felt like I was like a like a landscaper that that season because you're just trying to figure out a way to hide from the birds and and I think when it comes to like just being successful in the in the rice, like yeah, I mean the the decoys pay a huge part of it, but if you're not hid, it don't it doesn't matter if you got thousands of decoys out there and it like I've always thought about it like this like the cover and the decoys aren't for the good days. Because on those good days, I I've stood on top of the blind and had mallards come in. I've had specs do it too, but on the days where it's most of the days I would argue when you're hunting when the the f the conditions aren't necessarily to your favor for your blind, you know, that's when concealment, all the work ahead of time, the decoy placement, all that stuff really pays dividends then. So you know, we we talked about it a lot, but the work you do before you get into the blind is really gonna make for a good season.
SPEAKER_01:So nice. So uh I think you talked a little bit about this earlier, but just kind of put a bow on it. Your expectations for this season, you know, what are you most looking forward to?
SPEAKER_00:Well, we uh we we've just on our blind situation, like we we have one blind that we're pretty familiar with and comfortable with, and we we kind of know the days that the birds tend to like to be over there, but we have another blind this year. We we just moved spots and both of our blinds are in the closure, kind of near Calusa area, but they're spread out enough where you're not really hunting the same birds necessarily each day. Don't get me wrong, like birds fly around all the valley, they'll be in so soon, who knows? But like as far as that specific day, there's gonna be some subtle differences. So I'm really curious and excited to see how our new blind plays into the equation. And you know, we kind of made a move on purpose this year with the pintail limit, you know. I think everybody's excited, and I think that's probably my biggest excitement and optimism because I really like eating pentails, and when pentails decide they want to play and show up, it's it's a lot of fun, and we're really fortunate in California to see that happen.
SPEAKER_01:But I uh you know, I started to cut you. I was thinking about that when we were out in the field uh earlier today. I'm kind of looking around and I know where we're at here in the valley, and it's funny, I was actually thinking that too. Like this pintail limit hopefully is going to benefit uh you and your group quite a bit.
SPEAKER_00:And I think like what I'm excited about outside of just our blinds is every year I try to stretch my legs a little bit, and whether that's getting an invite from another buddy to hunt one of their spots, like I really like checking out other people's setups and just you know, again, like you have optimism every time you go out to a new spot, but a lot of times I just like to see like what's their clubhouse set up, their trailer set up, you know, do they have to quad out or go out on a side-by-side? I I was really fortunate last year. I had some amazing hunts off my sites, and that was really rewarding and exciting. But honestly, like I still love going to the refuge and going to the camo convention and seeing that whole thing in the morning, and just you know, I I have a good buddy who he coined it a combat hunting. Sometimes you go out to the refuge, and oh yeah. I don't mean to like you know speak negatively about it, but it could be a different game out there. But that's where my original roots are from, right? It's like walking out neoprene waiters with you know like a bag of decoys on your back and sweating so much going out there, but again, it's super rewarding. So as far as this year, whether it's going out to Grizzly possibly or maybe getting a draw somewhere or trying to get on in the afternoon just to see some new some new spots, but I'm always excited and optimistic to get to hunt some new places. And you know, last year I you know, again, I got to go out to some unique spots, but you know, and whether I again I've put in for state draws or you know, get invites, or fortunately, sometimes you draw a CWA or you get invited on a CWA hunt, but you know, I think those are the things that really stick out to me too, is like getting to go out with somebody different or go out to a new spot and just checking it out.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, I mean I feel the same way. You know, it's interesting, like you know, figured out I think this is my 13th, 14th season, and it's funny, every year I seem to go to a new place I've never been before, you know, hunted a different kind of style, if you will. And no, and then and you learn something every time, every season. No, but it's it's all good stuff.
SPEAKER_00:It's on that same topic, too. Like, what's really fun to me is like I hunt my way, and that's how I'm familiar with hunting, and the and the guys that I hunt with, we all kind of have the same style of hunting, and then you go out with somebody different, and maybe somebody you haven't hunted with that much. It's really exciting to see how maybe they call, or maybe they line up their decoys, or they brush their blind in, or what's their refuge cart set up, and you just kind of learn little tips and tricks that way, but that's that's pretty exciting too.
SPEAKER_01:No, that's a great call out because obviously we all kind of got our start in a different way, and we're maybe taught or mentored by someone different, and then you know, we get together and you know, we have that common bond over waterfowl hunting, but there's different ways or different thoughts on maybe how we'll set the spread today, or which way we want to be set up or facing. You know, it it's what's what's that saying? What like if there's what four hunters in your group, there's five opinions, right? Yeah, so uh, you know, but no, that's all that's that's good stuff for sure.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's where you find out who you your friends are, really. I mean, uh, because uh trust me, I've been the guy who's kind of responsible for the hunt, and I've had to walk out and kind of eat my own words and my own ideas. And you know, I think too, it's like I I'm the kind of guy every idea is a good idea when it comes to ducks because man, they are they are a tough critter and they have their own ways of doing things, but if you can stay on your toes and just try to change it up, it's that's I think where a lot of success is. So just learning from others is super beneficial.
SPEAKER_01:No, for sure. It it's funny as much in control or confident. I seem to be kind of day-to-day. It's funny. Sometimes waterfowl hunting can kind of humble you, or you definitely know if you're out with someone that you know, you know, I'm gonna kind of lean on this person today, you know, especially like when you know you take me out to some of your places. Like I pride myself on being a good guest, you know, and and hey, if you ask me a question or hey, Skip, what do you think about this? Like, you know, I'll say, hey, let's try it this way or something, and maybe we'll agree, maybe we'll disagree, whatever.
SPEAKER_00:But you you you bring up a great topic and you might want to just put this on their your tickler file, but honestly, like that's a huge piece. If you get invited on a hunt, you need to know where your place is because that's how you can build a relationship or ruin one in a morning hunt. And I think that's like uh just for any new hunters out there, like that's uh that's something to keep in mind, is the the do's and the don'ts of being a guest.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's it's funny. That one there, I think I was talking to you about this. I want to do kind of an unwritten rule slash cut peeve episode of waterfowl hunting, and I definitely think that's I've listened to different podcasts, and that's always kind of the common theme is that if you're invited out as a guest, whether it's you know, let's say you're going out on a guided hunt, you hear all these times about these guides that basically will take a group out and they're trying to put them on a good hunt, but you got these guys that think they know better and they're paying for the hunt, but it's like, hey, know your place, or you get invited out on a resie, and you know, all of a sudden you come out with a full cart and you got all your deeks, and this is how we're gonna set up. It's like, no, no, no. Like this is you know, whoever's resi it is, that's kind of their the the lead person. And obviously, if we're at your blind or you know, any of the guys in your group, you know, it's your guys' show. So well said. Well, right on. Well, I know we were kind of teasing. We got old Pepper uh sitting here with us, and uh she's looking at me right now. Such a good looking pup. Hey Pep. But uh, before we dive in on Pepper, I just want to give a quick shout out. I know last episode I mentioned my kind of hunting mentor who got me into it, uh Dan Garza. And uh speaking of pups, I just want to give a shout-out to his late pup, Storm or Stormy. Unfortunately, she's no longer with us, but she made it uh almost 16 years and honestly one of the best labs that I I ever knew. Great family dog, and uh, you know, fantastic dog out in the field, out in the blind. I mean, you know, you put her in her kennel or her place, and I mean her butt was stuck to that mud. Amazing retriever. She her blind retrieves were amazing. I mean, she can go, unfortunately, sometimes if we were to sail a bird, you know, a check or two over, she'd be gone for like 10 minutes, and sure enough, she's bringing it back. So uh cool. I just want to give a shout out to Garza and Storm and you know that great pup. So, but yeah, let's talk a little bit about pepper here. Uh you know, obviously, Charlie, you and I chat a little bit. You know, I got a couple labs at home, and unfortunately, they're not the type of pups I take out with me in the field. The first one got a little gunshot early on when I was kind of working with her as a puppy and uh just never really rebounded from that. And my second one, my wife and I rescued uh a few years ago, and you know, she's all lab, but I just you know, she's doesn't really have the temperament for the waterfowl hunt, if you will. But and and correct me if I'm wrong here, but Pepper is like your first dog. I know you grew up with the with pups and everything, but talk about kind of growing up with labs. I I know I met your parents' old dog Hans, and but kind of the training that maybe you saw happening with your dad and how that influenced how you wanted to raise old Pep here.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no Pepper, she's she's she's fun.
SPEAKER_01:Uh I think uh remind me Pepper's five now, right? She's I remember when you brought her by the house when you're yeah, she's five.
SPEAKER_00:She's yeah, she'll be six. She's coming up on six, so yeah, but no, so cool story about her. So I I would say my dad and I had two labs. The last one Hans, right? And that's Pepper's dad, actually, which is really cool. And Hans came from a breeder in Prunedale. Shout out Prunetucky, if anybody knows where that is, it's out near like uh Watsonville area. Great. But I I got Hans. Well, we that was our second dog from Sonic Pride was the was the breeder. And so, and from that same breeder, we we have a few buddies who have dogs, and they they were just really well-tempered dogs, good looking dogs, and I think we've all been really pleased with them. But yeah, so Pepper Pepper's dad is Hans, and we I was really like when you get a dog, you you never really know what you're getting yourself into. And I've heard stories about guys who've spent a lot of money on a dog and it just didn't quite work out. I've heard the opposite where somebody had a dog that they basically found on the side of the road and turned out to be a great duck hunting dog. So you never really know what you're getting yourself into. And I think dogs a lot of times can be like a reflection of the environment and you know how things are. So when I got Pepper, like Hans was definitely he was a duck hunting dog, he hunted two, three days a week pretty consistently for his life, and so he knew what he was doing. But I mean, at that point, you know, you're talking I mean like underestimate like that was probably like 18 years, I don't know, maybe 15 plus years ago. And so Hans, like we had had dogs leading up to him, so we we kind of know knew a little bit about training him. My dad always grew up with pointers and more upland bird dogs, so never true like retrievers, but uh I would say my dad and I both kind of learned through working with Hans together. But did you guys ever send Hans off for professional training involved? No, he was just a backyard trained dog, and he didn't know back, he didn't know forward, but I'll tell you what, you shot a bird, that dog knew how to pick up a bird. He had he had drive and he was really trainable. I think that was like the big piece was like, you know, I was really getting into duck hunting with Hans, and so he kind of learned as I was learning. And then fast forward to Pepper, really like when I got her, like I knew from day one she was gonna be a duck hunting dog. Like she she hunts as many days as I pretty much go out, and like you said, we were talking about like if I'm going out with a buddy who invites me on a hunt and they have a dog, or vice versa, whatever. If somebody's coming with me and they want to bring their dog, like Pepper's probably in the pickup. Because if we if we sell a spec or something like that and we're gonna need to go get that bird, like I have a ton of confidence that she's gonna she's gonna work to find that bird. But yeah, I mean there's there's so much to dogs, like whether it's you know, finding a breeder, picking a pup, when you get them home, how you want to like go ahead and start training them and introducing them to the family. And I I think one thing that's super important with dogs is like duck seasons, you know, and over here in the Pacific Flyway, it's about a hundred days, right? So there's a big chunk of the year where we're hunting, but there's a larger chunk of the year where she's at the house and she's a she's a family dog. So trying to find the balance between like hunting drive and family house adaptability, like that's a challenge. But I've been fortunate with her, like she's got a big motor, and in the field it's fantastic because she'll she'll work and find that bird. But she also, I mean, now she was just barking a second ago, now she's asleep on the ground. So so that's like a good example. Like, you you know, you gotta have a dog that's willing to uh kind of shut it off to you. But yeah, from a training standpoint, and I might have skipped over some topics, but no, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I wanted to talk a little bit about the training because I know I've been kind of following along with your training with Pepper, and I know you did some stuff through you know individually, but you know, and then I I think you have you know some guys up north or uh that you like to work with if you talk a little bit about that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so when I got Pepper, I I'd already kind of like put together like a a little bit of like a training platform for her. So when I got her like on day one, I I knew what I was gonna do with her, and so as soon as I brought her home, like you know, we were place training, we were crate training, we were, you know, basic obedience, whether that's like sit or hear or heal, like that was like truly as as soon as I could start to do that stuff with her. But you know, I I live in you know, like a sub suburbia, like and and part of the reason I waited as long as I did to get a dog was like I wanted to make sure I had a place for a dog to be a dog, and so I finally got to a position where I could have a dog I felt like and treat them how I think they should be treated, and so you know, again, fast forwarding. I think she might have been I had her for probably she might have been like four to six months old, and so that was like that first duck season, actually. So obviously she wasn't old enough, in my opinion, to hunt at that moment. I've heard about guys who take their dogs pretty much as soon as they're old enough to hunt, but I she she was in the truck, she went on hunts. I mean, we hunted Lano Seiko that one time and had a really good hunt, and at about 10 o'clock, I was like, hey, I I need to run back to the pickup and let Pepper out, get her some water. But initially, I really wanted her to be comfortable in the car, comfortable going on hunts, comfortable going to other people's areas, and whether she was hunting or needed to like kind of stay put, like I wanted her to be comfortable with that because as a hunter, you know, you're sitting in lottery lines, you're you know, at somebody else's property, whatever it might be. So early on, that was like really important to me. But once she got to that first duck season, once that was over, I got into the next early spring, so it's probably like March. So I sent her to a guy that I I met, his name, I'll just give him a shout out, Richard from Royal Gun Dogs. He's out in the kind of the Delta area, he's got a beautiful spot, he's got full kennels, he works with dogs every day. But I took her out there because at that moment I had realized like duck hunting is that's my thing. I want to have a dog that is a pleasure to be around. I want a dog that I love when people invite me and they're like, hey, can can you bring your dog? Like, there's no better reward for me as a hunter than you want to hunt with my dog. That's really cool. So I I learned at that point that I was gonna invest in my dog, and I was fortunate I got I didn't have to really pay for her when I bought her because you know, we got pick of the litter, and I feel like I got the right pick. But so I took her out to Royal Gun Dogs, and he, you know, I knew he was the right guy when I first took her out there, and I'll say it all the time like he speaks dog, like he sees things and knows things about dogs that I I'll never understand. He works with them every day. He he's he's a field trial guy, so he's constantly working dogs in that sense. But you know, I I personally didn't when I took him when I took her there, I just wanted to sharpen her hunting skills in a sense of like steadiness to the gun, you know, if we could teach her some hand signals, that's great. But really, it was more about like the hunting conditioning, and he's got access to some areas where he can introduce her to those, like he gets on some of the CWA properties, so some of the marshlands and stuff like that to introduce. And no, it really benefited me. And I think the biggest thing was you know, it might get a bad rap out there because it's just kind of an aggressive term, but force fetch, like force fetch is so important, and it's not something that happens in a week, it's like constant, right? And what force fetch is is basically teaching the dog to fetch on command, and then from there it's release on command, too. So I'll give you the scenario force fetching comes into handy when let's say you shoot two birds, and there's a dead bird and there's a cripple, and you need to send that dog on the cripple, but the dead bird's the one in front of you, and the cripple's further out there. But again, the way ducks operate, man, their their will and urge to survive is greater than our urge to take them home with us. So having a having a duck dog, it's a great conservation tool, and being able to use that force fetch in that scenario, sending the bird sending the dog on the cripple bird versus the dead bird, that's a perfect example where that force fetch comes into play. So, really, when I took her to Richard, it was mostly for the force fetch thing, but him and I built such a good relationship. He'd invite me out from time to time where I decided to just leave her for a few months and let him really teach her up and call it like puppy camp, really. But she seems to enjoy going out there. She's always fired up to see Richard. And I'm it's great now. I have a relationship with Richard where if I have dog questions, I gotta guy I can I can ask, and he's a great resource. And even still to this day, like I'll go out and work with him a little bit in the offseason and he'll help me with some some challenging stuff. And you know, like again, I'm never gonna claim that I'm like a professional hunter, and I'm proud of Pepper. She's she's about as good as I am, as I would say. Like, so there's some days where it's challenging, there's some days where she's on her on her game, but I do know every time I let that dog out of the car, she's fired up to go hunting. I mean, you saw her today. We just had her out for a little bit while we were brushing in the blinds. Like, she knew she was in duck country because she was she was working some some brush areas looking for stuff and just having a grand old time. And you know, it's again back to like the why of this, like the dog stuff is a year-round thing. You know, if you get to opening day and you're like, I'm gonna figure it out today, like you're not gonna have a have a super rewarding hunt, in my opinion. But if you do a little bit of work throughout the year, some retrieve, some place training, whatever it might be, like I think it really pays dividends in the long run. And so, you know, the the training piece was so important early on, and even still today, you know, we we do stuff pretty frequently. It's fun for me. I really enjoy it, and it's it's rewarding when you are working on something. Like, you know, something I'm working on this year with her is on a rice check, it's it's kind of like a tricky spot for a dog, I think, because like if you're in a marsh, you know, you can put her on a stand and we're elevated as hunters, the dog's below our gun level, but you get in a pit blind and the dog's right next to you. Well, first off, you know, the gun is that much closer to the dog. So there's hearing, there's the potential for fatalities, the obviously the excitement when we're sitting in the blind, she hears us talking, she's seeing birds, we're calling, all those things. She hears a safety click click off, like she picks up on all those cues. So, what I'm working on, and I've been working on this year, is trying to extend her place. So putting her, and I picked this up from some some duck hunting buddies of mine, and again, the the guy I mentioned earlier who's an absolute killer, his dog hunter. I saw this when him and I shared a blind maybe six, seven seasons ago. He had his dog like on an extended place, so away from the blind, and I was like, Man, that is cool. His dog's steady, stays over there, it's safer, all that stuff. So I've really been working hard with her on that this year. And honestly, she's picked up on it, she knows what she's doing. I mean, I I kind of like played the scenario today when we were out at the blind. She she knows what it means now. We'll see when duck season happens. And in fact, I was talking to a blind mate, like she's smart enough to know what she's doing, she knows her job, she's easy to train, she she wants to please. But man, when those ducks start flying and they start falling out of the sky, we'll see what happens. But my hope is that the first bird we shoot isn't a cripple that lands three, four feet away from her because I don't know if she'll stay stay that steady, being you know, 30 yards down the check for me. But I think for her sake, like it'll be easier for her to mark birds, it'll be easier for her to you know stay complacent and relaxed a little bit more because she won't be right next to the pit. And honestly, like a lot of it for me is safety, you know. I I I I kind of have a pet peeve for myself when I'm with my dog, and I I think most guys are this way, but I like to sit next to my dog. I don't want to have somebody like if she's on my right, I don't want to have somebody on my right. And you know, a lot of guys assume, oh shoot, you're shooting in the the better shooting lane. And it's like, no, I respect the dog like it's a hunter, so I don't I try not to shoot over the dog, try not to shoot obviously in front of the dog, and you know, if we have cripples on the water, you know, we got to be really careful, right? And it's like I think again back to the extended place, not to get off topic, but I think that's a huge benefit potentially for the dog, and I'm I got a ton of optimism for that this year.
SPEAKER_01:No, and you're 100% right, you know, with that extended place, like like you said, I saw it today, and you know, you hear all the time about you know dogs hearing going from you know, just the the shotguns going off, and and we've all heard those horror stories of just yeah, a dog broke or someone wasn't paying attention to the swing of their barrel, and uh yeah, no, it's just that'll be kind of nice when I get out with you this season knowing that that is taken out of it, right? For sure. And then it allows you to kind of especially when I I know with you you're you know kind of working the birds and you're kind of more paying attention to what's going in the sky, and you don't have to worry about you know what she's doing. But uh no, she she's a great pup. I wanted to give Pepper a little shout out here. Uh you mentioned the field trials and everything. Talk a little bit about some of Pepper's uh accolades.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, this is with Richard out there. Oh my goodness, yeah. Again, I am no professional. I could not run her on this type of stuff. I I get more nervous than she does for that kind of thing, I would say. But yeah, Richard just he he loves doing it. That's his passion, that's his hobby. He's also a hunter, and uh, but you know, really for him it's about the dogs and and working the dogs. But yeah, he he goes through you know the AKC field trials and stuff. And yeah, when I first started working with him, he was like, Hey, how do you feel about putting her in some hunt tests? And I said, sure.
SPEAKER_01:And and real quick for those folks that you know have never put their dog through those, kind of real quick, what is that all into?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so so hunt tests are kind of like a standardized form of testing the skill set of the dog.
SPEAKER_01:And so there's different particular to like waterfowl or upland or a little bit of both.
SPEAKER_00:They they have different scenarios for the for whatever you're trying to test the dog on. And you know, again, it's kind of there's a lot to it, you know, in certain parts of the world, truly the world and the country, there's more excitement towards one or the other. But you know, at least through Richard, his thing is more field trials geared towards waterfowl, and there's a little bit of an upland application, but it's primarily in a waterfowl situation, and so at least for a junior, like I'm not gonna get into the the masters or the senior hunt test type stuff, because there's there's a lot to that, but for for a junior hunt test, like there's there's a there's multiple components to it. So there's what they call like a flyer bird, which is like a live bird that they shoot, and the dog has to mark and then go retrieve it and bring it back. There's there's multiple marks actually involved with it, and it's really about the dog's efficiency to be patient and steady next to next to the handler, and then how how clearly they retrieve that, how clearly they come back, and what I mean by clearly is like how straight of a line, truly. And you know, you can get passes or failures based on how much you have to handle the dog, the the dog's inability to stay patient and steady. There's a lot of those types of things that come into play. So, really, like so. She's a junior, she's she she got her junior hunt test, and again, I know the listeners out there probably know better about this stuff than I do, but I it's basically four passes, and you know, you can pick up two in one weekend. You can't do your whole junior hunt test. It's you probably have to go through at least multiple entries to do it. But yeah, I was really proud of her. You know, Richard did all the work. I did nothing. I just stood there, I was like a proud parent watching my kid out there, like uh, you know, playing sports or something. But yeah, she got her junior hunt test, and you know, I I I'd be curious to like try to push the envelope, but you know, there's some challenges for her, and I always tell Richard this too. Like, I'm happy with the dog. She's she she's patient and the blind, she's quiet for the most part, and you know, when we should when we shoot birds, she brings them back, and she doesn't always do it with the style and grace that maybe a senior and or a master would do it at, but she knows what she's doing, so I'm proud of her for that.
SPEAKER_01:But you know, talking a little bit about like working with her and obviously, you know, how well she does on the hunts, and you know, she's obviously uh burning off a lot of energy, working off a lot of energy, burning off, you know, getting that exercise and whatnot. Talk a little bit about for like what works for Pepper and you, like as far as like her diet and routine and how important that is to you know make sure she's ready to go in the field, but also you know, staying healthy in the offseason and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, I think like a a big piece like it is you gotta like make sure your dog's conditioned. I think that's one of the challenges is like again, if you if you just show up on opening day and your dog hasn't worked any retrieves and you go out and shoot a two-man limited ducks, that's at least 14 retrieves. And depending on the scenario, it could be harder, it could be easier if if they're working on cripples or they're working through you know tall brush or something. But I I definitely am a big believer in making sure that your dog's in shape and conditioned for upcoming season. And one of the challenges I have with Pepper, she's not a big dog, as you know, as you know, she's like about 50 pounds, maybe dripping wet. She hovers like more around like 45 to you know mid-40s, I would say during duck season because she's hunting and she's burning off energy, and she's a high strung dog in the first place. So trying to keep weight on her in general is not the easiest thing. But you know, back to the conditioning thing too. Like, I think it's it's really easy to overfeed a dog, and it's probably just as easy to underfeed them. So you got to pay attention to their body and make sure there's enough fat on their like kind of on their back flank area. That's really like what I've learned is is. Like that tell is like you don't you definitely don't want to see their ribs, but you don't want to see that belly hanging because it's just going to be more work for them in the field. So you know, when it comes to food, I you know, I I've found like what works for me. She's on Purina Pro Plan, and you know, it seems to work well for her. She's got good energy, you know, and she gobbles her food up real quick. So I think she likes it. I I swear she eats it like it's meatloaf chili or enchiladas every time I put it down for her. But uh it's yeah, I I you know there probably there's probably guys out there who know a whole lot more about food composition than I do, but again, that's just what works for her. And you know, I've heard a high protein diet is really is a good thing, you know, with the fats and all that stuff mixed in there. But yeah, I mean the other thing too is like when it comes to dogs, you're responsible for them. Like they they don't turn off, right? They'll just they'll go, go, go until it's too much. So keeping an eye on are they dehydrated, you know, all that kind of stuff. But the I think the big one that like you're you're always worried about with labs is like that stomach the flip, the flip of the stomach, right? So just making sure your your feeding schedules are aligned with the hunt. So I I feed her after, like if we're doing a morning hunt, I don't feed her in the morning, I feed her after the hunt, and even the night before, you know, that morning I might give her just a touch more than normal, knowing that we have a hunt upcoming the next day, and then I'll do a little bit lighter feed in the evening so she obviously has enough time to really get through that. And again, I've heard of folks who won't feed their dog the night before, but she's a smaller dog, she doesn't have that big, bulky chest, which is again to my understanding, really like one of the major components of that stomach flip problem we were talking about. But uh yeah, I feed her right after the hunt and you know, just try to get her dialed in for whenever the next one is.
SPEAKER_01:So no, well, I mean, appreciate you sharing all that information. I think uh can't stress this enough. Like uh you know, Charlie said it, he's not a professional like dog handler or whatnot. This is just what works for Pepper. So I mean, there might be some listeners out there that have a different, you know, feeding schedule or brand that works for their pup, but you gotta figure out what works for you and uh your best hunting hunting partner there. But I guess um before we get off, kind of the last thing on the pups, we'll just kind of put a bow on on Pepper and our our hunting labs here is uh you know, obviously hunting season, and we always hear every year like Christmas comes up and you know someone gets a new dog in the family. Uh what would be kind of like I don't know, your biggest piece of advice for the listeners or maybe a new hunter thinking about getting a dog?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, I think there's a lot of great resources out there, and I would encourage anybody before they get a dog to just do their research, whether that's you know, like Gun Dog Academy is a really good one out there. I've I've seen there's a lot of videos on YouTube, so you can get a lot of information that way. There's obviously you know books and things, and and I've used some of those resources. I mean, fortunately, I found what I would call like a mentor in a sense for dogs with Richard. And but I think from an advice standpoint, first off, like like manage your own personal expectations because again, if you didn't put all the work in, if you didn't introduce them to all the hunt scenarios that they might encounter during the season, like how do you expect your dog to perform at a high level when you you know you really haven't given them the chance to succeed? So I also do try to remind myself like just be patient. Patience with a dog goes a long way and having like a calm demeanor because they definitely feed off of your anxiety or your stress as much, too. So just trying to be patient and calm with them. But yeah, I think like if you're looking for a dog, my advice truly is do your research on the breeder, the mom and the dad, because that's really the the tell, right? Is what's the temperament like and the things that you're looking for. Make sure they're they're evident there. And and if you are talking with a breeder, again, like the the day and age that we live in now with all the information online, like try to reach out to somebody else who's maybe got a pup too, or or whatever from that breeder. I think that really is it is a is a great piece of advice. And truly like back to the exposure, like try to expose your dogs to those hunt scenarios, right? So, like if you have a rice blind, before you get your your deeks out there, you know, obviously check the heat because today's a perfect example. It's hot out there, but you know, try to try to throw a couple bumpers for your dog or give them a chance to like see what it's like to retrieve off the check and get back to the blind and where they're supposed to be. Like, give them every chance to you know succeed and excel. And like, I mean, to give a bad analogy, like if if you expect to do well on the exam, like you should have studied for it, probably, right? Or at least gone to class, like I would argue it's the same with dogs. Like they uh one thing I've really learned about dogs is like like they understand things based on that scenario. So like if you only ever work your dog in the backyard, that's the that's the scenario that they're familiar with. So if you take them from your backyard straight to the marsh, they're probably it's gonna be difficult for them to translate those things. So exposing your dogs to as many hunting scenarios, whether that's in a rice field or at the local lake, or maybe there's another, I don't know, football field, or maybe there's a big grassy area unincorporated or something near your house, like just try to expose them to those environments. And with that, too, it's like some guys will hunt their dog out of a like a like a marsh hut or something, which would be like a pop-up dog blind, or some guys hunt their dogs on a stand, or some guys will just lay out like a bed of rice straw for them and have them lay on that. But like make sure they're familiar with those things before you just expect them to like I don't think a dog by nature really wants to go in those hunt hides right away, but once you teach them how to get in there, that it's a good place, that fun things happen from here, like it's a lot more translatable. So yeah, exposure is probably the biggest piece of advice, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:No, absolutely. Well, right on. Well, we're a little over an hour here, so we'll uh close up this episode of For the Fowlers. But before we do, uh let's uh find out a little bit about Chuck here when it comes to what uh he uses out in the field when it comes to uh waterfowl hunting here. So uh you know, a few questions here to kind of get to know you a little bit. Uh so this upcoming season, uh, what gun are you planning on using out in the field?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I uh I got a I got two guns that I primarily hunt with. I have a uh Browning A512 gauge. I love that gun. I I love the nostalgia of the humpback. I have a 16 gauge in my safe too, like an old school wood stock that I actually take out with me from time to time, just depending on the weather. But really, like my two arrows in the quiver, I would say, are the Browning A512 gauge, and then I have a Super Black Eagle 3 20 gauge, which I I wanted a 20 gauge mostly originally when I bought it, I wanted it just to have like a lighter gun for you know, if I take like a younger hunter with me, or you know, my girlfriend's kind of got into shooting a little bit. And at the time I I when I bought the gun, I didn't necessarily correlate those two things, but point was it's just like a good backup that's maybe not as heavy, power, whatever, you know. And the obviously the 20 gauge hype is is real, but I'll tell you what, man, that 20 gauge, I really like shooting that 20 gauge. It's I'll tell this is kind of like an interesting point on it, but like jumping in and out of pit blinds with the 12 gauge, whether it's the weight of your shells, the weight of the gun, the length of the gun, the 20 gauge, it's like I call it the laser pointer, man. It's it's compact, it fits everywhere, it's light, and I'll tell you what, like that gun, that gun does the trick most of the time. And and again, back to like how we like to hunt, calling birds in and getting them tight and shooting them close, like the 20 like ethical kill shots in the decoys, like the 20 gauge does all you need it to do, and and then some. And that SBE3, I'll tell you, man, it is a pawn swatting machine. I love that gun. And those are those are probably the two though that you'll see me out there with.
SPEAKER_01:So for sure. I mean, the listeners know I got the SB3 and the 12 gauge, but yeah, I want to get out there and shoot the 20 gauge more this year.
SPEAKER_00:And uh it's kind of addicting because when you feel how light it is, it's not as loud. And you know, when you again when you're sitting in a pit blind and they start going off, like those 12 gauges will ring you. But the 20 gauge, when you see how you know how how well it works, it gives you confidence, it's light, you know, follow-ups are easy, it swings well, like not a whole lot to complain about.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so far I've only shot it a handful of times, but I really like it. I ended up getting uh Benelli's little brother, the Frankie Affinity on that 20 gauge, and yeah, I look forward to using that more. You mentioned shells. I know it's everyone has a preference for what works for them, but what shells do you uh prefer to use and what size? If we're out on a duck hunt out in the rice field out here.
SPEAKER_00:For years I shot the blind sides three-inch number twos, 12 gauge, and I loved those shells, they worked really well. But man, what was it like in 2020 or when the laws maybe changed a little? I can't even quite remember now, but I I went through a shell change, and I fortunately have somebody, a close colleague of mine that I can I can order shells through legally in the state of California with their FFL license and stuff. So, you know, the the advertisements and all the hype on the podcast or the internet worked, and I I jumped on those boss shells back in like 2020, I think. And again, man, when I first started using those, I think the first batch I bought was the 12 gauge. I think I bought like the three-inch number threes or the something like that. I definitely started with the big ones, thinking that bigger shell that's what I've always used. Well, then I quickly cycled to the two and three-quarter, the stacked, I think it's the three fives on them. Those work really well. And then now that's pretty much what I shoot. And this obviously, this offseason with the bismuth changes and the manufacturing changes over at Boss. Like, I'm a little worried about the long term, but when I go to buy shells, I don't usually buy like a couple boxes at a time. I buy about like whatever I can stash away and afford. So fortunately, going into this year, I have enough ammo to get me through. But I also picked up some of the Apex, I think it they have like a tungsten steel combination, and the price per shell, it's a it's really a good price. So I'm curious to see how those suckers work. I got some 20 gauge of those, and you'll probably see me out there with the boss shells primarily, and man, they they just flat out kill birds. And I'll tell you, like a side benefit of those boss shells is I really like to eat my ducks. I that's I mean, again, we talked about pintails. Pentails are the top of my list, and when you chomp on a steel BB, that that'll send a ripple effect through your skull that I mean that'll knock you out of your chair. But those business shells, it's one less tooth broke into. So there's a there's a few benefits to them.
SPEAKER_01:So you mentioned chomping on that BB. We got to get together for uh dinner at your house or my place and uh you know put a little money in the pot there and see who gets the BB.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that that's funny.
SPEAKER_01:That's always a fun one.
SPEAKER_00:I know. I love I love the pot, right? Especially with like people who've never eaten ducks before. I had a I had a meeting with some uh some some work colleagues, and we, you know, we did a dinner, whatever, and I brought the chef some some birds to cook up. And uh I told everybody that before there was like 15 or 20 of us there, and everybody put in I can't remember if we did 10 bucks or 20 bucks, but it was a decent pot. And uh one of the guys' wives actually got the BB, and she was the first one to spit it out and throw it on the table. So she got the pot, and I always joke around like winner gets the pot, you know, for the first BB, the second BB, you just get a dental bill, you know. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:Well, last question, I know this podcast is all about getting those new hunters into the sport and you know getting them comfortable and whatnot. Uh you know, how about some advice for someone who's just getting into the sport?
SPEAKER_00:Oh man, yeah, it's it's an addictive, uh exciting passion, you know, and I think I think mentorship is super important, whether it's a buddy or something along those lines that that can really that can really get you out and show you the ropes a little bit, because it is a big learning and curve. So I think the biggest one would probably just be like mentorship and understanding of what's going on. And you know, I I think like just get immersed in it, you know, whether that's doing research and checking out videos online, because there's so many great videos out there, or going to the check station and just checking it out and getting to understand it.
SPEAKER_01:And you know we talked, you know, those guided hunts. CWA does does those new hunt programs too. Yeah, you know, shout out CWA, they got a couple of those one of those new hunter camps coming up uh this season. That's pretty cool. Uh out there, I think at uh Grizzly Ranch, they'll do a couple overnight things where they'll put you out with some volunteers that'll uh kind of get you uh up and running and get you comfortable with decoys, duck calls, stuff like that.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, I think that's it. Honestly, that's probably like mentorship and then going out on a guided hunt. I would say one A and one B. That guided hunt, you know, go out with a professional, kind of see the game, and and also too, a lot of the times the guides, especially up here in the valley, like I I've heard about some of these guys that'll lend out a gun or lend out you know a pair of waiters, or you know, you could they they'll help you with some shells because all those things are learning curves and you know, all the equipment is is not cheap, right? So if you can go out with a guide early on, that will give you and it'll also help you with kind of scratching the itch and getting more into it because those guys know what they're doing. And when you see that group of 10, 20 widgeon just cupped up, work the you know, work the call, bank into the wind, like those guys they know what they're doing, and that's a lot of fun. So that'll definitely get you more into it.
SPEAKER_01:So all right, Chuck. Well, what do you say we uh wrap up this one here? Appreciate uh you jumping on the show here and uh you know telling us about how you got into it and uh your outlook on the season and you know leasing blinds up here in the Sack Valley and talking about old Pepper here. She's doing she's doing great here, just sitting here with us. But uh we'll get her out of here and let her stretch her legs a little bit. But uh yeah, please uh follow us on uh Instagram for the Fowlers. You know, you could find our link to our podcast on there. But yeah, check us out on Spotify, Apple, pretty much anywhere you listen to your podcast for the Fowlers. And Chuck, thanks again, man. And we'll uh we'll get you on here again. And yeah, everyone, have a good one. We'll talk to you soon. See you guys.