Please Don’t Poop In The Blind

The season’s on, the weather’s weird, and the refuges are a mixed bag. We kick off with real-world reports across the Sacramento Valley and Grasslands—warm temps, thin water, slow averages—then map out why the next storm could be the turning point for flights and success in public land hides. From there, we get to the heart of it: the unspoken code that keeps refuge hunts safe, fair, and actually fun.

We unpack the social media cycle—reservation flexing, vague screenshots, and the endless “Where should I go?” posts—and offer a better way to use online intel without burning spots. You’ll hear how we read season-long blind averages, pair them with flood maps and wind, and build a plan that doesn’t rely on chasing yesterday’s pile pic. At the check station, prep wins the morning: bring your licenses and plate numbers, know your first and second choices, and check out quickly so refills can hunt. In the marsh, spacing equals safety. Headlamp wars help no one; communicate, give room, and remember that 50 yards in the dark isn’t much when shot starts flying.

We also dig into the craft: working birds at ethical range, choosing chokes for 30–40 yards, and calling with intention instead of blasting a mallard hail at every shadow. Clean kills beat sky busts, and a clean blind beats a trashed one every time. Pack out your hulls, carry your own gear—or push the cart if you load it—and don’t bring a new crew back to a spot someone shared without asking. Public land works when we protect trust, read birds, and leave the place better than we found it.

If you’re navigating California refuges this season, you’ll leave with practical etiquette, smarter scouting tactics, and a safer, calmer way to hunt pressured birds. Enjoyed this one? Follow For The Fowlers on Instagram, subscribe on Spotify or Apple, drop a quick review, and share the episode with a buddy who needs to retire the kazoo. What’s your top refuge pet peeve? We want to hear it.

Chapters

• 0:00 Season Check-In And Weather Outlook
• 3:10 Sacramento Valley Reports And Water Issues
• 6:50 Grasslands Low Averages And Slow Refuges
• 10:45 Flooding Timelines And Optimism For Migration
• 13:25 Call For Listener Reports And Episode Setup
• 15:40 Social Media Pet Peeves And Rezzi Bragging
• 21:40 Asking For Advice Vs Doing Homework
• 25:00 Cyber Scouting Smartly Without Spot Burning
• 28:20 Check Station Etiquette And Prep
• 33:20 Reading Blind Averages Without Getting Fooled
• 36:50 Checkout Crowds, Refills, And Courtesy
• 40:40 Carry Your Own Gear And Pull Your Weight
• 43:10 Work Birds, Don’t Skyscrape
• 48:10 Free Throw Before Threes: Chokes And Range

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Welcome to another episode of For the Fowers. I'm Brandon. And I'm Caton. And before we get started on here, we just want to remind all you listeners out there, be sure to follow us on Instagram at ForTheFowers. We're obviously getting more and more followers each day. And you know, stay tuned because you know we were talking about doing a little giveaway as we continue to get more followers. So we'll post details on our Instagram, but make sure you're following us for those details. So Caden, here we are, a few weeks into the balance of the state season here in California. How's it going out there so far?

SPEAKER_01: 0:35

It's been good. We had our first hunt, you and I, was it last week or a week and a half ago? Uh we got into a couple birds. It was a good time. And then I was able to had some family in town last weekend and I was able to shoe them out of the house early on Saturday, and I packed up my two kids and we did a little afternoon hunt up north and we got into some birds. It was actually pretty exciting to see see a flight with not a whole lot of weather going on. But we were able to knock a few down, and the boys were excited anytime they get a come home with a at least a little bit of a strat bragged a mom, so it was cool. We're getting it's definitely uh starting to turn on a little bit.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14

Yeah, are you uh what are you hearing out there kind of the rest of the Sacramento Valley?

SPEAKER_01: 1:19

From the people I know who I you know actually word of mouth, it seems like it's definitely a mixed bag and it's it seems like the the hot spots that uh along the river, things like that, are shooting pretty well. But a lot of the refuges, at least from the people I've talked to who have gone out and hunted the refuges, have been pretty slow. Talked to a buddy today who hunted out at Delavin and uh didn't have much luck, knocked down a few birds. But yeah, it's it's been tough. You see people posted online big piles from refuges, but I haven't been hearing that necessarily from anyone I know. I know the water's kind of been an issue.

SPEAKER_00: 1:56

Yeah, it's been uh pretty hit or miss, you know. I've just been kind of listening to connecting with different guys, but also listening to uh, you know, other podcasts and whatnot, and kind of getting the local report, and uh definitely for the guys that are uh quote grinding it out on the refuge, they're having some success. But, you know, I was listening to I think it it was the uh spot burn from Filthy Spoon. John was connecting with someone down in the grasslands, and uh sounds like it's like less than a half bird average down there. And and what I thought was kind of funny was he said one refuge one morning had seven shots total, but four were before shoot time. So uh they're getting desperate down there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 2:37

I mean that that's pretty par for the course sometimes. I mean, up in the Sack Valley today, we were I was out there working on the blind and it was 83 when I got back in my truck. So it's it's a little warm, but we got a storm pushing in tonight, I want to say. Not a super cold one, but it's gonna bring a good amount of rain for us up north. I think we're looking at over an inch and a half on Tuesday. And anytime I see that, I know that just means it gets a little nastier up in the mountains and up towards Thule and Klamath. So I might kick some birds down and start lowering the temperature a little bit and improving the hunting for us uh valley hunters and you guys down in the grasslands.

SPEAKER_00: 3:13

Yeah, you know, I I met up with you a little bit towards the end of uh the work day today, and uh I know we shot off to farmers for a late lunch, grabbed a couple beers up there, so it was good seeing some folks over at Farmers. But on my way back home, I actually stopped by the SAC refuge just kind of checking at the check station and see what's going on there. And this is about what 2.30, 245, not one car in the parking lot there. And I go up to the window there, and he's like, There's a couple folks out there, but he said that he had not heard a shot a single shot since 9 a.m. So uh wow, it is slow. I think overall sack refuge, I think I saw a one and a half bird average over the weekend, and I was looking at the flood map. There's still very limited water up there, and obviously hunter quotas are extremely low too. So yeah, I mean it's definitely a slow start to the season. I think you know, obviously we were all extremely optimistic and we still have a ton of season to go, but I think we thought we'd probably get a little better start, you know, out the gate.

SPEAKER_01: 4:14

But yeah, it seems like like I mentioned earlier, it's if I know a few guys who hunt some natural private stuff and they're getting into some birds, but that's kind of seems to be expected because they have water by the opener, they've got some good established habitat on the flyways. I don't have anyone that I know that's rice is flooded. I saw some fields are flooded up by willows, but everyone, all my in my big group, most of us don't see water until about this week. So we'll see. It'll turn up though. It's early, it's November. I mean, what do you expect?

SPEAKER_00: 4:44

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I obviously just driving through the valley today. Uh yeah, more and more uh fields are starting to flood up, so we'll definitely see if those birds start coming in. But uh for the listeners out there, we're not looking for you to burn any spots, but please, you know, shoot us a message on Instagram, let us know kind of how things are going for you this season. Uh, we'd love to hear it. So speaking of refuges, Caitlin, I know we were kind of talking about this episode here, and I think it's gonna be kind of a fun one, but uh this episode's gonna be all about our pet peeves when it comes to the refuge, those unwritten uh rules, if you will. So uh I know that you saw that I put out a uh the bird call out to our fellow hunters on Facebook and kind of find out what grinds their gears. So I asked, you know, hey, what are your pet peeves when it comes to refuge hunting? And some of these kind of overlap into private land, you know, rice hunting as well, but for the most part, this is all, you know, when it comes to refuges specifically here in Northern California. So, you know, we saw the comments, there were some definitely some good ones there. So I figure we just kind of go through some of the comments that we received and uh you know, we'll kind of give our two cents on it. What do you think? Absolutely. So I kind of broke it down into a few different categories here, and uh, you know, the first one being kind of the Facebook social media cyber scouting section, if you will. And uh, you know, I won't throw out full names here, but we'll kind of go through each one of these and you know, love to hear what you think on it, and I'll uh give my comments as well. So you ready to go? Absolutely. All right. I like this first one right off the bat. Yeah, so the first one comes from Brent Kay, and his biggest pet peeve is showing off reservation wins on Facebook.

SPEAKER_01: 6:27

For me, excuse me. For me, that's like I get it if you have one draw, but to kind of jump on that, it's one of those you'll see these people who have, I don't know, they must get they need to get a lottery ticket or something. They'll but they'll post like hey, I got number three at SAC, number four at Howard, number one at Lano, I got three down in the grasslands. Where should I go?

SPEAKER_00: 6:46

And that's just like that makes me feel great because I haven't had a draw since December of 2024. For sure, man. And and I love it because obviously they put all those out there and you know they obviously want to brag about it, but then you see them kind of black out or redact certain parts of their uh reszi notice or or all this stuff. But yeah, they then they reach out, hey, where do I go? Let me rub this in your face. But hey, what advice do you have for me while I decide to go do my little dry creek number three and burn the rest of my resis? You know, so yeah, no, that was definitely a good one. It was interesting on this one because sometimes I'll post, especially on like social on Instagram, I'll post like the unsuccessful notices that I get, you know. So but yeah, I don't list that. I don't I don't mind doing that, but obviously I don't want to hear uh about you know good for them, but hey.

SPEAKER_01: 7:40

Especially you hear like there's some old there's some old timers out there been putting in for years and are used to the old system and stuff like that, and they it's just rough for them. So I that's one of my pet peeves. I get it's exciting to get a draw, but I don't need to see all Ford who draws.

SPEAKER_00: 7:55

Yeah, I I've gone back and forth on the way like it's never gonna be a perfect system, but you know, I can't come up with a solution where they're not gonna make the money that they need.

SPEAKER_01: 8:06

That's the and I get it.

SPEAKER_00: 8:08

But somehow, like I feel like we can put in as many places as possible, but like either A, you only get like that one draw. So when the system randomizes it on what Thursday night at midnight before it sends out the success or unsuccess, you know, if you get number 10 at Sacramento, then every other one that you get, like they give you your best option. I I don't know. The other one was God, I'm trying to think, not about the money. Oh, that you should have to almost confirm confirm your reservation, right? And I think that, you know, like I I don't quote me here, but I think like, you know, the way California Waterfowl does it is like once you win the draw, you have like a few days to say, yeah, I'll be there before I think it goes to like first come, first serve. So that way those reszies aren't getting burned. Because how many times are you and I in a parking lot and we maybe have like a number 25 somewhere, and we actually sometimes will actually count to see who how many people don't show up, and sometimes it turns into like a 15, right?

SPEAKER_01: 9:08

So yeah, and that is a I will say that kind of a sneaky benefit of people having moldful, and it actually, I think some of the local guys who don't even put in for the res reservations and they're just lottoing and sweating on, they probably benefit from people not showing. So I do see a positive aspect of it, but I mean it just from the the mindset of there's there's no perfect system. But for you know, for us when you're driving two, three hours, four hours. I mean, I live I wish I lived 20 minutes away from two or three refugees, don't get me wrong. But when we're driving two, three hours, it sure would be like that's when the resie's super nice. Yeah, I think it'll never work, but I'll keep putting in at a dollar thirty-four.

SPEAKER_00: 9:48

Yeah, I feel like it keeps going up, but yeah, it definitely adds up for sure. Well, I guess kind of along those same lines, you know, stick with the Facebook one. We had a comment from Ryan C on Facebook that says, uh, posting on Facebook for hunting advice. And this one I'm kind of back and forth on. I I think what Ryan is, I don't want to speculate, but I think what Ryan was thinking was like the guys that get on and say, hey, I have a reszi at YOLO. I've never been there before. Does anyone have any advice on it? I don't think that they're asking, hey, what time do they start calling numbers? But I think it's like, hey, do I go blind? Do I go free roam? What do you expect you know, that type of stuff. But um we've talked, man. It can be brutal. You know, you you put yourself out there on, and I think we all know what page we're talking about, but you get on some of those Facebook pages, it it can be brutal.

SPEAKER_01: 10:39

Yeah, I mean, it I definitely am very hesitant to I don't I don't even know if I've ever really posted on there. Um, I'm always hesitant to do it. I get there's every you see there's some success stories like guys who are clearly new to hunting, and it's probably two to one, two positive comments to one guy, maybe give them rousing them up a little bit where there's some good advice talking about what to bring and things like that. A lot of the advice is the same. But do your research. I mean, we one of the things you said earlier is cyber scouting. There's a little magnifying glass on all Facebook pages, and you can search if you have a YOLO resi, just type in YOLO and you can pull up a lot of the questions over the past probably decade that the pages have been running, and you'll get good information. I mean, I know I've gone to refugees that I've never been to, typed it in, and pretty much had a game plan before I even left my house. For sure.

SPEAKER_00: 11:34

Yeah, I mean, I think kind of sticking with like the information on Facebook. We got a comment from Chrissy P who said, you know, posting on Facebook versus just looking up what's clearly posted online. Oh, perfect. I didn't I didn't even see that. Yep, that's it. Yeah, I mean, same thing. I I understand where where they're coming from, but sometimes the information that is posted online is not a hundred percent accurate, especially like this year, like up with all the news about you know, lotto numbers being posted on. Like we quickly learned week one that you know during the opener that that's not the case at all refuges. So I think kind of bottom line is you know, do your own homework, you know, you know, do your own research and then you know, maybe connect with your hunting network. But if you gotta go on Facebook, just support each other, be nice to each other. But um, but yeah, it it's brutal, man. Can't we all be friends? Yeah, it's it's brutal. But I would say one of and and I just kind of touched on it, but one of my biggest pet peeves is like the inaccurate like comments and response to a legitimate question, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 12:38

And so, like I said, we might know the answer to something, and and you kind of see just I don't want to say they're trolls or whatnot, but yeah, it it's I mean those those take those posts in our in our group chat between you and I and a couple of guys, like you'll quickly quickly see a screenshot, and then I wonder where this is gonna go, and yeah, it's just funny. I get it for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 13:00

I think this one's pretty cool. Like, once again, diving into the Facebook world is uh Eric Kay. You know, we've all seen this one here. Quote, I'm not trying to steal anyone's spot, but just trying to cross off some places. It's like we know what you guys are doing. You know, I mean you're hoping that someone says, hey, go to pond, whatever, take this blind, you know. You I feel like people are asking for what you know where the X is, right?

SPEAKER_01: 13:24

Yeah, I mean you the answer is always gonna be get out there and scout. I mean, unless you have a a number one at somewhere that has a very clear, easy first pick. I mean, it's gonna be get out there, pick a spot out of free roam, or pick a blind, pick a pond, put some time in and stay a little bit. Stay a while, you know, watch the birds once your flight's done, bring some binoculars, see how the birds are flying to other places, and then put a pin down on your on your phone or something like that, and scout that place next time. It's really just it's it takes seasons to learn uh a refuge, but it pays off because now you know I'm six seasons in and there's very few refuges that I wouldn't get a draw that I'm not fairly confident on where I could go to shoot a couple birds.

SPEAKER_00: 14:07

Well, and we hear all the time, like, oh, it's hard to scout public land, but I'm like, uh I understand that the birds aren't always going to be there. You're not just kind of like driving around, like you you only have access a few days a week, right? But I think one thing that you and I try to do is even when we're like making a long walk back to the parking lot, the sun's up, you know, maybe it's like 10 a.m. and we're kind of just looking to see where the birds are flying, where are people set up in different ponds? How many times do we walk or walking out? We might drop an X somewhere where we think we might want to check out for next time. And then just going from, you know, maybe the from the parking lot back to the check station, just kind of really paying attention to that five mile per hour speed limit and actually taking advantage of it and looking left and right, seeing where the birds are diving in. So there's definitely ways to get to know the refuge, you know. But I I get it, like you mentioned. Sometimes you have a three-hour drive certain places. I know some of our listeners are down south in LA area. And I mean, if they get a reservation, they're probably coming up the night before, doing their hunt, and getting back home. So, but definitely, you know, you you put in the work and you get rewarded for it for sure.

SPEAKER_01: 15:12

So I love I love when people ask about Grey Lodge. I mean, never ask where to go on Grey Lodge. That might be golden rule number one, because guys are just gonna direct you right into the close. It's comical without without fail. As soon as someone asks, hey, I'm going to Grey Lodge, where should I head? It's boom. They direct you right to the close of them. For sure, for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 15:31

For sure, man. Well, uh, why don't we pivot away from the social media and the Facebook and kind of the pre-scouting, if you will, and let's head right to what we like to call the camo convention, you know, that that group of hunters all decked out, you know, at the check station. So the first one I have here is I don't know, I guess it's I'm not really a pet peeve, but uh kind of an unwritten rule. I think I would assume every group has this, every hunting group. We definitely have it in ours, but that kind of resie pecking order, you know. And for me, I always say don't expect the invite if you're not putting in. You know, it's already hard enough to get a draw, but we obviously rely on each other to you know get that success, to get that uh, you know, that reservation notice. And you know, we obviously have our list of folks that you know we go one, two, three, who's getting the the shout out, but I definitely think that this is one where, you know, like I said, put in, support your hunting group, be available, all those things. I mean, what are your thoughts on this one, Caden?

SPEAKER_01: 16:31

Uh I mean, me being the new guy way back when with you guys and coming in, this was the one of the first rules I learned. So I mean, it's something to live by, and it it's a it's a the rule could change, your group could change, but you know, if if Brandon's putting in for you know 10 different Red FGs 80% of the year, that's a little bit of a financial hit. And the kind of my opinion is that expectation though is like I also would be putting in. And then if Brandon gets a draw and I get invited, when I get a draw, I invite Brandon. And there's some other guys in our group who have that same kind of nod because I know if they get the draw on one of their first phone calls as well. And I just think that's just how the world should work and how it goes around, and it keeps keeps us all hunting. I mean, if I didn't have you getting some draws last year, I don't think I would have even been on a reservation.

SPEAKER_00: 17:17

For sure. And obviously, especially if you get the invite, you know, make sure you have all your stuff, you're good to go. I'm I'm gonna skip this next one and jump right into Paul M's comment here where it says, hey, if you're hunting a refuge, have your hunting license, have your day pass, have your license plate number ready when your number's called. You know, have a good idea and where you want to go to hunt with alternatives. That's good as well. So, you know, obviously we were just talking about, you know, bringing on that guest, inviting someone else to hunt. You know, make sure that everyone in the group has the day pass. We don't want to be figuring that out at 3:30, 4 in the morning. But yeah, that that's definitely uh one of those kind of pet peeves, if you will. Where, you know, obviously, fortunately, I don't think it's ever happened to anyone in our group, but I've told you I always try to, you know, have good karma out there, and I have extra day passes. So if someone needs one, I don't mind, you know, it's what 20-something bucks here, here you go. And hopefully, you know, if it gets me one more bird that day from the duck gods, I'm all for it.

SPEAKER_01: 18:16

Yeah, I think that's awesome. And one of the ones I like on that, and it was a learning curve for me, is have your license plate number. Because especially if you're out of refuge that's called has more two or three windows going, a lot of times the guys checking you in will still go just because you're at the window, they're still waiting for the the number before you to make their pick. And there's nothing worse. I mean, if the group before you one is dragging their feet, but also like they have that one guy running out to the parking lot with their flashlight, just trying to read their license plate off. Right it down on I always take a sharpie. I mean, I have it memorized, but I I used to just write it right on the front of my license and or my hunting license. So that way when I hand it over to County Czech Station staff, it's right there. They asked for it. I point it out, don't have to read it to them, it's good to go.

SPEAKER_00: 19:00

Absolutely. So you know, sticking with you know, knowing where to go. Pet peeve of mine, I don't know if it is of yours, Caitlin. I feel like sometimes maybe we've had conversations about this, but over-relying on blind averages day by day. So obviously they tell a lot, but not everything. And so what I mean by that is, you know, obviously they have all the blind results, pond results, you know, from you know the last few shoot days, and you know, everyone's like, oh my god, this this one shot a 3.6 average, or you know, this one only did uh one bird average. And and for me, it's like, yeah, you can learn a lot from there, but that doesn't tell the whole story. And we think about it like bad shooters affect the average. And how many times have we gone out where it's just like we're not shooting well? And we think all the time where it's like, hey, we walked out with four birds, but you know, we probably should have had six or seven, right? So, you know, the birds are in that pond, they're at that that blind, but maybe it's just the person wasn't paying attention, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 20:09

So I remember actually, you remember last year on the opener, uh, the guy camping next to us, he uh he went out with a new gun, he had a reservation, his gun broke, he can't he walked, we never saw him walk back in. He walked in after like 30 minutes, switched guns, and had another issue. And that's it was a whole long story. But long story short, he was out there until about 11 o'clock, did not bring a burden because he couldn't, his guns, both guns were broken, and he checks out, and it's like now that for just for a weird day, that's gonna have a zero. So you could be coming in and checking, and that guy could have had a number one resie with the top shooting blind, and he's gonna have a zero for that morning. You never know. So just look up season-long averages. I mean, talk to people, don't just trust whatever's on there for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 20:51

Or do it and let me get the good blind. For sure. No, that that's a great call and a great story. I totally forgot about that, but yeah, that that right there. I mean, one bur a 100, zero birds right there. So and then kind of the last thing I have for the check station and is you know, when we're checking out, the guys crowding you at the table, you know, like I said, almost chasing a flea market. Yeah, almost chasing down your rig as you're pulling up to check out your birds. And I I get it. They're all excited, they want to see what you what you have or don't have, but it's like, guys, like let my feet you know hit the ground out of the you know, out of the car before you know you're over there, like you know, basically carrying my strap to the table for me.

SPEAKER_01: 21:30

I always feel like those five or six guys are like the best hunters in the world, and like I have to impress them when I get out of my car. I'm like, why? I don't even know these guys.

SPEAKER_00: 21:38

For sure. For sure. And I mean, here's the deal, man. All these things, especially when we started, we were those guys too. But I I I let me breathe a little bit. Yeah, it it's not that big of an issue. I think it's almost comical at times, but it's like guys, just take it easy, you know. It's a high it's a high pressure walk. I mean, I mean, so many, how many times? And sometimes I'll three ring necks. Oh no, I'll tell them and it's the truth. Be like, oh my god, you guys have you know, you shot four or five birds. It's like, yeah, I shot them all at shoot light, then I sat out there for three hours and never pulled the trigger. So if you want to go chase my spot, go for it. But it died off. So Yeah, had a sandwich out there. Yeah. So I mean, that's pretty much all I have for uh, you know, the camel convention, aka the check station.

SPEAKER_01: 22:23

Uh but I think I got one that wasn't posted and it kind of just came to me, and this is just an etiquette thing. Let's hear it. And I'm surprised it didn't come up. But if and and I kind of just touched on it, if you go out, you have a good hunt, and I'm gonna use, you know, you you've already checked in, you're at one of the back parking lots, pack your birds into your car, pack your gear up, get to the check station and check out. Because there's guys, guys with their kids, families who want to go out and hunt. If you want to eat lunch, eat it out of a main parking lot after you've checked out your birds. I think that's just kind of a common courtesy thing. There's nothing worse than being at like a great refuge, and guys are just sitting out there smoking and joking, and then they leave. And it's like, man, there's people who want to hunt. Let's let them get out there and do it.

SPEAKER_00: 23:02

Yeah, that's a good call out for sure. And I I I know I speak for our group that we definitely are mindful of that. You know, at the end of the day, we're it's gonna be a while before we're back to that refuge, especially that spot. So and they don't know exactly where we were, but you know, they're not gonna totally burn it.

SPEAKER_01: 23:18

It's one thing if there's no refills or if like you're gonna go back out after lunch, you're just gonna do an all-day, maybe try and get some afternoon geese. But if you're leaving the refuge, if that's the intent when you pulled up your decoys, try to check out your birds so other guys can get in there. It's hard enough to hunt.

SPEAKER_00: 23:33

No, great call out there for sure. Well, we're through the check station, man. So uh we got a handful here when it comes to uh when we're out in the field and during the city. These get pretty funny. Yeah, so let's start with this one, and and I'm on board with this. I actually commented saying, you know, basically, I'm with you, and this is a big one for me, too. And like I said, it it's not necessarily in our group, but I see how this happens. So we got David from Southern California that said, quote, carry your own shit. Just because your buddy has a cart and you don't, don't load his cart up with one thing unless you offer to push the cart all the way to and from the blind. That's a good one there. You know, I mean, obviously, if you're maybe taking out a new hunter or you got your kids' stuff or whatever, that's completely different. But, you know, you get these guys that, you know, maybe they just are bringing their gun out and their blind bag and their stool, and next thing you know, they're like it just loading stuff up. But you know, I can think of someone in our group that you know he'll throw his stuff on on my cart, but you know what, he always offers to push, and and it's a he pushes it every single time. Yeah, it's all good. So which helps helps out, you know, because you know, we you and I know who we're talking about, and you know, we'll go out and we'll do most of the work at the blind, we'll throw out the deeks, do all the setup and stuff like that. So he definitely does his part by you know pushing that pushing that group.

SPEAKER_01: 24:58

Yeah, and he's uh key hunts once or twice a year, you know, yeah, maybe a few more on a good year. So it makes sense not to necessarily have all the gear and nothing, but great guy to have around. Always good to push out the gear and crack a few jokes. For sure.

SPEAKER_00: 25:11

So let's see what we got here. This next one. We have Tyler who says he wished people would actually work birds and shoot them at 20 yards. That's more fun than actually shooting them. Nowadays, it's all about the pile picture. Don't get me wrong, I love taking pictures of successful hunts, but don't skyscrape just to line the tailgate. So this one definitely, as you know, we we've all been there, I'll I'll admit, like I've taken shots longer than I probably should have, especially early on. You know, you it's a slow day and you got some birds coming up over the top. Um, we've all been guilty of skyscraping. I I think if anyone says that they've never done it, they're full of shit. But you know, as I've you know gotten older, become more aware of my hunting, become more aware of you know bird ID, you know, different things like that. I definitely think that we've done a better job of letting birds, you know, work coming closer. You know, we just found it to be easier than you know chasing birds halfway across the pond, you know, more ethical shots this way. I mean, you and I were just talking about it today as you know, I know I I'm gonna be running a new choke this season. I think you were talking about it as well, that you know we don't need that full choke anymore. You know, let's let's take shots.

SPEAKER_01: 26:26

I think a lot of guys just don't realize what 40 yards looks like. You know, you hear guys saying they kill them at 70 or 80, and it's it's not that they're you know, they may take pokes at that stuff, but the birds you guys, I think, at least in all the hunts that I had, when I watch birds fall, they're always within 40. I mean, and 40 is a long ways. Go pace it out in your backyard if your backyard's big enough or go down to the park, look at 40 yards is a long ways. And that I think our group does a great job at dropping a four. It's tough on a refuge though, because once they get in that 40 range, you might you know you might be at 30 yards, but you're only gonna probably get one pass before a neighbor shoots. And I'm not talking bad about that neighbor, but it does flare the bird, and it's gonna immediately change the flight path of that bird and probably kick ours out of there. So we're very good. I think we see that usually you get one pass, birds are starting to work in. If they get within that 40 to 30, that's our time, but that's at least my window to take a poke.

SPEAKER_00: 27:18

But we were even talking out in the field today when the after we were done throwing deks and everything, we were having this conversation and we're like, you know, what do you think 40 yards was? And we just happened to be standing 40 yards away from the pit, and we're like, that's a poke, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 27:32

It's a poke it's a poke. I'm confident enough in my man manhood to say 40 yards is a poke. I'm sure there's guys out there who and I I know I've taken shots, I've done some specific goose hunts and things like that, where you're taking taller shots or whatnot, and you're I have a you know my gun set up for it, but 40 yards is a poke. I don't care what you're saying. Yeah, I think I like your line about shooting.

SPEAKER_00: 27:55

No, that I can't take credit for that one. I I I don't remember where I heard it from, but it was fairly recently. And you know, my whole goal is to let birds come in much closer. Like I said, I'm gonna be running, you know, a like a wider choke. I'm gonna be running the modified this year because I've always been a full choke guy, you know that. But I heard someone say, you know, if you can't make a free throw, why are you shooting threes? And I was like, that makes so much sense, you know. So yeah, we'll see how it goes this year, but I feel good about the shooting. I'm all patterned in. I feel I feel good where we're at. So I'm excited about that. But yeah, I just want to touch on this uh other comment from Tyler about, you know, nowadays it's all about the pile picture. And I definitely think there's a lot of that, especially as like this younger generation's coming in. We already talked a little bit about the social media, the Instagram part. And you know, obviously we want to take pictures, share our successes, but you know, we want to do it ethically and make sure that you know we're not just out there giving the sport a bad name by you know taking these bad shots, crippling birds, you know. You know, you don't want to see a pile of birds, you know, with a bunch of other necks wrung out because you know they were a bunch of crippled that you sailed and stuff like that. So yeah, I definitely would say let's not skyscrape, let's just have a fun, successful hunt. Exactly. So let's see. This one's good here. I mean, this is really more of an unwritten rule, but I definitely think it's one that we should all know. But we got Josh. Yeah, for me as well. We have Josh here from the Sacramento area that says, quote, if someone takes you out to their spot, don't go back out with someone else. And you know that that's a good one.

SPEAKER_01: 29:36

And that last part's the bit is a real that whole that's a loaded comment. It's like a I almost say it's a don't go back, possibly without at least communicate with the original person, and then bring in a stranger out there. I mean, that is almost like a cardinal sin in a way. I mean, it's just tough because if someone's bringing you to a spot, especially you know, if it's a lesser known refuge or a free room, you know, free room. Type stuff. They've worked for it. I don't know. I'm I I've I've said the first episode there's not a spot that hasn't been hunted on almost every refuge in California, and I get that. But sometimes guys do put in work, and if you get a nod from someone who's a an elder, so to speak, maybe don't burn their spot for the you know with some Joe Schmoe that you want, you know, used to go to college with.

SPEAKER_00: 30:20

And that's what I was gonna say is I think that it kind of depends on the group here because you and I, and I think about like our hunting group, even if we were to kind of go out a layer or two, it's all kind of the same group of guys. So we're not really bringing out like randoms. But yeah, to your point, you know, I've even seen it where I'm out at the check station, and you know, I see, you know, maybe someone that I you know met 10 plus years ago, and you know, or maybe I went to high school with, and you know, we've gone out and hunted together, just being like, hey, I'm gonna go free roam, you're gonna go free roam, and I end up going to his spot or he goes to one of mine. And let's be honest, maybe some of my spots were some that I got from another one in our group, but I'm really mindful of you know where we take folks. But I think it's just you know important, you know, have your tight hunting circle and make sure that you know I I I don't need to worry about this. Like I I'm not worried that you're gonna take folks somewhere else, but I definitely see where Josh is coming from.

SPEAKER_01: 31:19

Yeah, especially some of the spots I hunt up north. I mean, it's definitely it gets protected. I we have a I have a secondary group chat with some you know, some buddies from work up here, and it's literally called the the non-spot burning group chat because we had one and one of our buddies just absolutely burned a spot and it was pretty comical. And it's been a year and a half, and he just gets drugged through the coals. He's not in this other group chat. We purposely will only text him this one, so he's left out. We but I mean we bust his balls all the time, so it's true. It's something that I live by in our groups.

SPEAKER_00: 31:55

But I'd be curious to hear like what some of the listeners have to say on this one, because obviously, if I take you out to the spot, I take someone out there and they have Onyx and they drop a pin on their okay, now my spot's burned. But if we're in a group chat or you know, we've heard other podcasts, you hear Facebook or whatever, if I say that I'm out on the I don't know, the west side of Delvin or the east side of Grey Lodge, whatever, like uh I could say what parking lot I even went out of. Like, you're not gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01: 32:27

Those are all that's fairly vague. Those are good. I mean, I I'm okay with lot even. I've had a lot of great hunts when guys are like, hey, I would just try this lot. And I mean that's super vague, I think. But I've had in specific, like I'd be curious what the listeners say because if you're if you bring a buddy out, you know, good friend or whatnot, and then all of a sudden a week later, let's say a picture gets posted of another limit or two limits, let's say, and it's like, wait a minute, 14 ducks, I didn't go. You went, I know that lot, and then you you know, you find out, oh, that was where we hunted. You didn't even invite me, you know. It's just it's like I get it.

SPEAKER_00: 33:10

I'm probably wrong in this, but it man, it it sure is fun to So I'm laughing when you said someone posts a picture because I forget Or text the picture. No, no, no, no, I forget who it was, but I'm pretty sure that I saw someone on Instagram that had posted a pile of birds like on like down tree or something like that, but they had blurred the background. I think they were that kind of paranoid that just the background alone would be like, hey, I know that Thule patch, they're over at you know, pond 28 in Sacramento, you know, whatever. It's like no.

SPEAKER_01: 33:41

Yeah, no, like I said, it I think I'll be curious what the listeners think. I mean, I've definitely we've hunted, I mean, back when I first started with Grizzly Island, for example, that's a spot I think that would be you wouldn't think that'd be hey, you're burning spots, but you gotta work to learn how to not only where the birds are, but there's just ponds out there that are inaccessible. So, you know, you have the Onyx scouters, which we're all guilty of, and then you see water on Onyx or whatever app you're using, you go out there or Grizzly, that pond could be 10 feet deep. And obviously that's dangerous and whatnot, but to have good X's in that pond or on that property that are huntable takes time, takes effort. And I know like our buddy, he would in the past is like, Hey, try this parking lot, and yeah, we'd go out there and we'd find some canals that were we'd I wish I had a inflatable to cross because there would be great habitat across, but we couldn't figure it out. And you know, a year and a half down the road we learned a path just because we you know from trekking around and scouting.

SPEAKER_00: 34:41

So yeah, for sure. So yeah, I mean, like I said, you know, for the listeners out there, let us know what you think. I think we all agree like you shouldn't take people out. Like if someone takes you out, you know, you don't take another random person out to that spot. But as far as you know, are we really burning spots? You know, when we start talking about them, I'm sure um there's some conversation about that. But yeah, let us know what your thoughts are. The next few are all kind of around the same thing, and I mean this now we're gonna dive into you know kind of the free roam and different spots. Okay, yeah. Cody from Sacramento area says, just quote, headlamp wars. And we all know what he means by that. You know, you go out there and you folks are racing from the check station, they're racing from the parking lot, and you know, maybe they're out there kind of working, they got their headlamp off, and and next thing you know, they're shining their spotlights and they're shining their headlights your way. As soon as they start hearing, you know, water, water splashing around from people kind of coming into the pond. And you know, uh you and I've spent enough time in free room where it's like, you know what, if we see headlamps out there, we just don't even go. If someone shines them on, we'll just keep it moving. I'm not looking to, you know, and let's be honest, a lot of times it's these young kids, you know, early 20s, whatever. I'm not looking to argue with them at 3:30, 4 in the morning. I I don't care about getting, you know, a couple birds that much that I'd rather just go sit somewhere else and find a new spot. But, you know, just be respectful.

SPEAKER_01: 36:17

If it feels close at night, it's probably closer. It's it's gonna be a lot closer in the daytime. I mean, that's a that's a big one. We talked about it today. For sure. Just space it out. And I've been on hunts where I can think of one specific where I totally screwed up and I could have sworn I was I was using it was a spot I'd hunted before someone had beat me out, and I was like, oh, I I go around this bend, I'm like, I'm gonna be pretty far. And I did feel bad because the sun came up, and all of a sudden I realized the birds that were working my blood decoys were falling, you know, probably 100 yards or 50 yards, I don't remember, behind me. I'm like, oh, I am on it. And I poked my head over, and sure and shit, his bread was right there. And I just kind of had to sit back and let him take his shots because I screwed up.

SPEAKER_00: 37:01

Yeah, I think on this one though, I would definitely say, you know, use your headlamp, you know, let people know, like hey, I'm already here. Because I was thinking about just I think it was last opener, it was the Sunday. So we got on Saturday afternoon, but then we went out and felt Sunday morning. And I don't know who was there first, but we didn't hear anything. We went out there, we got all set up. That was last year, and uh, you know, obviously shoot light shots were fired. Shoot light comes, and you know, we get into a couple birds, we don't hear anything, not a not a peep from anyone behind us, and then next thing you know, what 20 minutes later, this guy shoots off, and he's like 15, 20 yards behind us, obviously shooting the other way. But that's one of my biggest fears, in especially when it comes to these free run ponds, is you know, like people not realizing that if you're within like 40-50 yards, I mean, I just heard a story about a guy that actually just got peppered like in his like arm and shoulder. I I don't know where I don't I don't even know if it was here in California, but that's how accidents happen. It's just it's it's not worth it. You know what I mean? This is my hobby, but and I love it and I hope to be doing it for a very long time, but it's not worth me, you know, getting peppered with some BBs, you know, just because we're all trying to on the 1X.

SPEAKER_01: 38:21

That was a weird one that because I feel like every other time, at least someone usually says something or hey, you're right on me. And like I said, I have no idea who got there first because I did we have no idea where this guy came from. And that's just a safety issue. Don't for some reason out in the pond, I'm pretty unconfrontational this in life. I've I've been known to pick my battles outside of outside of duck hunting, but you know, that's where it's like just say something. You can even, you know, an off-mark if you can start having if you're able to have a conversation with somebody nearby, you're probably too close.

SPEAKER_00: 38:55

Well, and let's let's actually tell a positive spin on it. God, uh you were hunting, so this is probably within like the last five seasons or whatever. And I want to say it was an opening day or opening weekend out at Grizzly, and oh yeah, we ended up meeting that guy. He was a former, he's a vet, I think he's a former Marine. We met him in the in the reszi line, and you know what? Like, we just invited him to come along with us, you know what I mean? Because he didn't really know where he was gonna go.

SPEAKER_01: 39:25

And yeah, that's right. He was he had just got out of the military and he was gonna do the same thing. I think he was kind of heading in our direction, and we ended up hunting us three, which we'd never done before, and that was great.

SPEAKER_00: 39:36

Yeah, I mean, we we learned some, you know, met someone out there, and uh, you know, he didn't really know where he was going. We were still kind of getting used to Grizzly Island, and it just it shot out the grizzly sweat line, it just worked out. So, but yeah, you I'm I'm looking here. Ryan uh Ryan B says, quote, 50 yards away from the next group is too effing close. And so uh yeah, he's spot on there. So uh just be nice to each other, give each other some space. Uh you know, uh at the end of the day, like just make it a good hunt, good experience. You know, we've all been guilty of it. We're not on a up in our soapbox saying that we've never done this, but we're obviously mindful of it, especially as we've gotten. I would say we haven't done it intentionally, that's for sure. But correct. Correct. There are people who would just do it just to do it.

SPEAKER_01: 40:24

But yeah, um, just like I like these next ones coming up though.

SPEAKER_00: 40:28

Yeah, I mean I mean, like I said, don't set up right on top of someone else. Don't be an asshole if someone is heading your way, they may not see you, just work it out. But yeah, so these next few are kind of towards the end of the hunt, I guess. Or we got one more that's dearing, but I liked this one here because this is actually a big pet peeve of mine, too. So Billy from the Bay Area says, quote, bring a bag and haul out your trash, including spent casings. Quote, your mom probably isn't backfilling the blind to do it for you. So that that that's a good one for sure. You know, I'm really mindful of it. Like, you know, especially when things slow down, or maybe we're having like that uh that that breakfast in the blind. I make sure to put my garbage in uh in our my blind bag, even when we're out there and we're picking up deeks, and I'll just grab a handful of you know our shells and just you know throw them in the in the sled and you know, I'll throw them away in the check station. I don't care if they're mine or or someone else's, but I always try to leave the blind definitely cleaner than than I found it. But it it it it is a shame like what some of these blinds, especially at the towards the end of the season, what they end up looking like. And we all hear about it pre-season, like there's not enough staff at these refuges to maintain these blinds. They barely have enough to kind of put up the cover and stuff like that. So I think we all as hunters need to make sure that you know we're taking care of, you know, obviously the blind, you know, the ponds. And keep in mind, like this is all habitat for the birds, too. So we want to make sure we're picking up our litter. But good, good shout-out here from Billy.

SPEAKER_01: 42:06

And all it takes is one person who's anti-hunting who goes out to a blind and it does happen, and they get good pictures of just us trashing the habitat. It's like these guys aren't conservationists, they're just out here to litter and kill birds. It's like, man, that's not where eat, and I don't think the guys who are littering are even trying to do it. They're just thinking it's it's good to happen. It's but we just got to make sure we clean up, especially in free roam too. It's a little tougher to pick up your shells, but just do it as your, you know, as your dog's retrieving your duck, you can shuffle to the side and grab your two shells that you shot.

SPEAKER_00: 42:39

For sure. It's funny, as you were just mentioning that, I was actually pulling up the Facebook post here because one of the things and I didn't pull the comment, but you definitely get those ones that are just out there. We're talking about that that pile of birds, but also like shoot what you plan on, like shoot and harvest what you actually plan on taking home and eating and providing for the family, or or you know, sharing with your friends and whatnot, because there's a lot of folks out there that just want to go out. Yeah, here it is. It was Dylan that said, I hate people that go out hunting just to kill the guys that are quote, all about the blood and pile picks, you know. So, you know, that that's another one too. Yeah, this one here. Another Dylan says, if it flies, it dies, shoot everything. He's obviously being a little sarcastic because I read the whole comment here, but that too. That's that's another big pet peeve of mine, too. So right on. How about this one? And I know and I'll I'll read the comment and then I'll kind of uh give my my context on it. But uh Andrew from Southern California says, quote, leave the kazoo at home, end quote. This is a good one for our group, Co. It it is, and I and I'll tell you why, because I mean I'll be the first to admit it. I'm a horrible caller, but I I would say I'm actually killer on the whistles and all the different things. But I know that I've I've teased you over the time uh over the years, and you have gotten way better when it comes to you know hitting that uh that mallard caller, you know, I know you're working on your spec call and stuff like that, but there were a couple times where even you've called yourself out, right? Like a couple years ago. You're like, that doesn't sound good, or you really try to do like kind of that comeback, that hail call, and you know, the first few notes are really good, and then all of a sudden, like you're trying to catch your breath or something, and you know, there there comes the kazoo. But I thought this one was pretty funny.

SPEAKER_01: 44:33

I think I I feel like that was one of our friends who had like his burner account going because he always calls he's like, Good God, put that kazoo away. Uh but I haven't hunted with him in a few years. But anyways, like that was a it was definitely a learning curve for me. I'm glad I powered through those years. But I even find myself, I mean, especially early season, if I don't put because I'm not driving as much for work anymore, or like we you and I used to, or you still do. Those first few hunts, I'm a little a little rusty. But yeah. Calling does work, but read the birds. If you're just hammering on the call and they're not even flinching or they're just going away from you, you can you can stop. You'll know. You're not just yelling at them, you're trying to talk, you're trying to talk to them. I don't want to sound like a a dork or a nerd, but you know, if they're looking at you straight in the face and you're hitting them with a hail call, you're just it's essentially like your wife yelling at you at home. You're just gonna turn around and go the other way. Well, you know, it's you gotta kind of be smart with it. And I like that. Put the kazoo away because some these guys call and call and call.

SPEAKER_00: 45:36

Yeah, and I'm looking because someone, I mean, I don't need to find the exact comment because we all know this to be true, but sometimes less calling is more too, right? And I know that people are like, what the hell does that mean? But like so many times, like you're just absolutely on the X, and especially after you know, you know, December hunt, you put out your your mojo or whatever you have, whatever you're running out there, and birds are just diving in on it. Like you don't even have time to you know reach for your call before another bird's just coming in, you know, 10-15 yards. Sometimes you're just there. You know, I remember a hunt last year, and you and I were chatting about it. I went out solo and I mean I was on the X of X's where like I'm literally out picking up the bird that I just harvested before another as I'm walking back to the blind, another one's already coming in to my spread, right? So it was a hell of a hunt and you know, very little calling needed in that day.

SPEAKER_01: 46:32

So yeah, and how many times have you been sitting in a blind, and the closest bird of the day is when you're not even looking or calling at that note, you know, because they finally got some peace and quiet and they want to take a look at your decoys. For sure.

SPEAKER_00: 46:46

Well, I'm looking at the time here, and you know, my goal on this one was to keep it under an hour, and we're definitely gonna do that. But we're coming up to the last one here, and I think this one's pretty funny, you know. And I I I actually I might want to shoot this guy a comment to be like, tell us more about this because you I've never experienced it, but I'm sure it has never experienced this. So this one's funny. So Daryl S says, quote, don't shit in the blinds at the refuges. Get out of the blind and go shit in the Toulies like normal people.

SPEAKER_01: 47:21

I don't I thought he was joking, and then he doubles down and gives I'm like, no, he's serious because he's explaining what he wants to happen.

SPEAKER_00: 47:28

And but I'm trying to figure this one out because even if you're out by yourself or then you're sitting and you're that's what I mean.

SPEAKER_01: 47:35

So and or is it like an upper decker? Like you're just you're right before you leave someone's, you know, or someone's house, and you're it's a college prank, and you're just leaving an upper decker in their toilet, you're leaving a present for the next hunter in there. I'm I don't know.

SPEAKER_00: 47:50

I mean, the only thing I can think of, and I'm not justifying here, but maybe you know, whoever maybe Daryl was, and I'm not saying Daryl did it, but you know, this blind that he went to was it in like one of those like island blinds right in the middle of the pond. So there's like no cover, so you hop out and everyone kind of sees, hey, that guy over there's picking up already. Like, no, he's not.

SPEAKER_01: 48:13

You know, so that was oh man, that was she, that was me on our first hunt where I was a couple hundred yards away, and hey, nature was calling, and I'm just sitting there, I'm like, man, if someone drives by on their boat right now, because we're by that boat canal, they're just gonna see my waiters just buried in the grass as I'm trying to figure out how not to fall over while I take care of business.

SPEAKER_00: 48:35

Man, we we've all been there. I mean, I was telling you the other day, and the listeners, I mean, everyone has a story of something. I hope we're not out in the blind, but I was telling you about that one time at Grizzly, and we were in like four foot water, right? And there, I mean, I had no choice but to like climb up and sit on top of the toolies. It was so thick, but you know, we we we find ways to get it done, but I never would think to shit in a blind. Even you go to those ones that have like maybe it's a four-man blind and it's two and two, and you're over there, maybe in your own blind. You imagine just like what are you doing over there?

SPEAKER_01: 49:09

I wouldn't even I wouldn't even take a leak in one. At least I'd at worst, and I've done this on the rice blind. I've stood up on the top of the blind and just took a leak into the the rice jack, but or the the water. That's not a problem, especially if I'm hunting solo. But man, in the blind, I I would love to well, I wouldn't love to see it, but I'd love to hear the story behind that, and I hope it's only one story.

SPEAKER_00: 49:33

Yeah, I I think Or he's hunting in a really shitty spot. Yeah, no pun intended. But yeah, we will definitely let's reach out to him. Let's let's shoot him a let's shoot him a message and be like, hey, you know, we we brought this up on for the Fowlers, but we maybe we'll even see if he wants to come on real quick.

SPEAKER_01: 49:49

I'm hoping this is like some Southern California refuge kern or one of those ones down there that we're never gonna be able to make it down to. For sure.

SPEAKER_00: 49:57

Well, I think we'll end it on that one there. I don't know, Caitlin. Were there any others that you had? I mean, I I think we touched on that.

SPEAKER_01: 50:04

No, I think we touched on I'm sure that I'm sure more will come up every episode from here on out, but then those are that's a good first list. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 50:11

So no, this was a fun one here. We really appreciate all the engagement uh on Facebook here, and uh you know it was great to kind of hear all the different pet peeves and you know all those unwritten rules that people have for their hunting group. But uh yeah, man. So we'll uh wrap up this episode. Before we uh jump off, don't forget to uh rate and review on Spotify. We are on Apple, and then tell your friends we're also on YouTube as well. So um it's still audio only, but still for those of you guys that like to, you know, kind of put YouTube on in the background while you're at work or whatnot, look up for the Fowlers. You'll see all of our podcast episodes on there. And yeah, tell your friends, jump on Instagram and follow us at For the Fowlers too. So a lot of good stuff on there. We'll be posting more as the season goes on and as this podcast continues to take off. But until then, we will see you guys all next week.