For the Fowlers Podcast
Introducing "For the Fowlers," a new waterfowl hunting podcast based in Northern California. Our goal is to dive into every aspect of this sport we're so passionate about.
We aim to create a valuable resource for new hunters, helping them get into the sport, while also engaging experienced fowlers with our stories and those of our guests.
For the Fowlers Podcast
Ep. 10 From Puppy to Proven Retriever: Richard Gebhart of Royal Gun Dogs
A great duck dog isn’t born in the blind—it’s built with smart timing, simple habits, and a plan you can actually follow. We sit down with Richard Gebhart of Royal Gun Dogs to map the path from roly-poly puppy to safe, steady retriever. Richard shares the milestones that matter: crate comfort and socialization, a leash the pup can drag to learn pressure, and early bird exposure that creates desire before any formal pressure begins. Then he opens the playbook on his two-week puppy camp, where live-chukar excitement pairs with a careful gun-intro sequence so the dog learns that loud noise predicts the best reward in the world: birds.
From there we move into the foundation that keeps you safe and makes retrieves predictable. Richard explains why he delays the down command, how he conditions the e-collar so dogs learn to turn pressure off, and what a thorough land-and-water force fetch looks like. We talk through hunt scenarios you should practice—decoys, dog hides, stands, deep-water swims, and thick cover—and why steadiness starts at your side before it transfers to the blind. He even covers common pain points like breaking at the shot, whining in the morning, and chasing diving cripples, with practical fixes that don’t create new problems.
If you’re juggling family life and field time, Richard’s advice lands: 10–15 minutes a day beats marathon sessions, stake young dogs on a quick-release their first season, and train for momentum so perfection can follow. We close with pedigree pointers—choose breeding for performance over color—and a three-step checklist to be ready by next season: get birds, build a foundation with obedience and force fetch, and let the dog set the pace. Subscribe, share this with a hunting buddy, and leave a review to help more waterfowlers build reliable partners.
What's up guys? Welcome to another episode of For the Fowlers. Today we're talking about how to turn your dog into the hunting partner every water fowler dreams of. Joining us today, we got a good guest. We got Richard Gebhart of Royal Gun Dogs based at Hastings Island near Rio Vista, California. Richard is the retriever trainer who helps hunters build steady, confident duck dogs. He brings over 20 plus years of experience as a trainer, which includes top-level field trial and hunt test dogs to everyday hunting and home companions. As an avid upland and waterfowl hunter himself, he understands and appreciates the teamwork between the hunter and the well-trained gun dog and how it specifically enhances the hunter experience as well as reducing lost game. Richard's an active is active in the AKC retriever hunt test community and has run and qualified as an AKC Master National. So without further ado, let's bring Richard on here. Richard, welcome to For the Fowlers Podcast.
SPEAKER_00:Hi, thank you very much for having me.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, man. I I really appreciate you coming on. I know we talked a little bit off air. I've been looking forward to today's conversation. Hope you don't mind that intro there. I kind of pulled it right off your website, but I think it kind of sums up everything that you've been doing the past couple of decades. Yeah. Yeah. So, well, I know I mentioned you've been doing this for over 20 years, but you know, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? Kind of, you know, where you're from, how you got your start into training gun dogs.
SPEAKER_00:So I'm from California, born bred right here. Actually grew up in Southern California for the first five years. My parents got me out of there and got me to the Central Valley out uh east of Fresno. So that's where I spent most of my growing up years and developing into a hunter. I came from a non-hunting family, so I I'm a little bit of a different story.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, how'd you how'd you get into it? Because that that that seems to be kind of real common where especially even from my background, like no hunters in the family, and I know a lot of listeners and different folks I've chatted with, they kind of everyone kind of picked it up a different way. How'd you get into it?
SPEAKER_00:Well, my folks got me out of the city when I was young enough to understand the difference between growing up in the city and growing up in the country. And I grew up on a small little ranch at uh east of Fresno, and of course, what do you do when you're a kid? You play with BB guns. And I thought to myself, Well, this is fun, but I'd like to have some real game. And I asked my mom one day if I could buy a shotgun, and to my surprise, she said yes.
SPEAKER_01:That's awesome. And so, did you get into some upland, like waterfowl? What was your kind of your first pursuit? What what what'd you get into?
SPEAKER_00:Well, at the time, junior hunter or junior apprenticeship stuff in California was really taking off. So I think my first hunt was a fetted pheasant hunt, and then I was taking out duck hunting, and that leads into how I became a dog trainer. Basically, my first experience duck hunting at O Dark Hundred was guys yelling at their dogs. Yeah, there's there's a lot of that out there. Oh, at the time, this was before e-callers were well-accepted training tool for by the masses. Okay. And so these dogs really were not under control at all. And people would holler at them at the in the dark, and I told myself I wasn't gonna be that guy. So, did you have a dog at this time or I had a mutt. I had a Labrador mix, and what sold me on that pup when I got it was that it retrieved. This was before I ever even got into hunting or anything like that. I just wanted a dog that would fetch. And I took that young pup, and she was probably about a year and a half old when I started working on bird work with her, and she turned out to be a very good pheasant dog. And um she was a good duck dog, but she couldn't tolerate the cold very well.
SPEAKER_01:And so how old were you or when you had this pup and you started kind of doing some work with your one and a half year old mutt?
SPEAKER_00:I was roughly 12 and a half, 13 years old when I started working with her.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, and how'd you kind of learn how to work with the pup? Where you know, different books, doing some internet research, working with trainers?
SPEAKER_00:Lots of books, what internet research I could do at the time. Sure. There was very little online at in those days. But reading a lot was was number one as far as developing myself as a trainer. Number two, I had someone locally that my mom worked with that trained dogs professionally. Okay, that's how I ended up getting my first purebred lab. Oh, very cool. So and kind of I found out that my young dog was gonna plateau very quickly in her training ability, and I needed a clean slate to work with. Sure.
SPEAKER_01:And and what kind of inspired you to you know take you know training to the next level and eventually kind of be like, hey, this is something I want to do as like a career, you know, talk a little bit about that.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that leads into the hunt test and field trial games. Okay basically through my reading, it it was it it became very apparent that the top trainers were all playing the game of field trials.
SPEAKER_01:And and sorry to cut you off, but like for some of the listeners that might not be familiar with that, you know, they they be, you know, can you kind of explain a little bit about you know hunt tests and field trials and and what that all maybe not entails, but what kind of is accomplished through that?
SPEAKER_00:Well, think of it this way field trials are a demonstration of a dog's trainability and usefulness in the field. But just like with cars, dog field trials are far beyond what you ever anticipate needing in the field duck hunting. Okay. So think of your field trial dogs as your Formula One race cars, and I think of hunt test as an ass car and then your regular hunting dogs as your daily drivers.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:That's the way I I explain them to people, in that you don't need a field trial dog, but having that sort of lineage in the breeding is a good thing to have because it demonstrates the trainability of the dogs in the past.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. No, that's awesome. And and I once again talked a little bit offline, and and for the listeners out there that can kind of think back to one of our earliest episodes when we had my good buddy Charlie, aka Chuck, on, we talked a lot about his dog Pepper, and his dog Pepper went and worked with Richard, and I think still does from time to time. And I don't quote me, but I think she has some junior field trial uh awards and different recognitions and hunt tests.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, hunt tests, yes. Okay. So think of it this way: a field trial is a competition where there's a first, second, third, and fourth. A hunt test is a not a competition between dogs, it's basically you competing against a standard. Got it. You have to perform to a certain level in a consistent manner in order to pass or qualify. Got it.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Well, sorry, I know I cut you off there, but you were talking a little bit about how you got into this professionally, and you were, you know, talking a little bit about how hunt tests and field trials came came to be with you. But go ahead. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so I I found that the majority of the top quality trainers were playing in the field trial game, and through the reading, it became very apparent that it was a rich man's game. Okay. And so I thought to myself, at a young age, I thought, well, the only way I'm ever going to be able to play this game is if I do it professionally.
SPEAKER_01:Nice. And so what sort of training or certificate, you know, what kind of goes into becoming a professional trainer?
SPEAKER_00:In this field, it is a lot of experience, a lot of reading, a lot of hands-on doing. Just going out and talking to other trainers, getting on-the-job experience, working for somebody, training as many dogs as possible.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's interesting, kind of when you mentioned working for someone. When I was looking through your profile, you know, it almost looks like uh various like apprenticeships, if you will. Like I don't know if that's what you would call it, but you know, just where you kind of go and you you it looks like you have a handful of mentors that you know, with each person, you kind of learn something new and and it kind of uh rounds you out as as an overall uh dog trainer.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and for me, my journey started with when I was about 15. I wasn't able to drive, but I had to have my mom drive meet him at Darrell to meet a trainer and meet up with him to take me to his kennel. Okay. It's all about talking to people and and learning the ropes. Everybody's got a different style, yeah. And there's more than one way to skin a cat for sure. Absolutely. There's more than one way to train a dog, but in reality, it all comes down to fundamental work. And by and large, the way we train dogs today is is primarily Rex car methodology.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Right on. Well, uh, you know, I know for this episode, there's no way that folks should be able to listen to this and totally learn how to train their pup, but really kind of what I wanted to do here was uh just kind of pick your brand a little bit. And I figure this probably is a great time to do this episode. One thing I always know is it seems like this time of year everyone, not everyone, but a lot of folks seem to get, you know, maybe a brand new pup for Christmas or a new family dog. And you know, mom or dad wants to end up, you know, taking it out into the field with them that following season. And you know, I just kind of would love to talk about you know training and development, whether it's puppies or even, you know, you know, older dogs too. So if you're good with that, we'll just kind of uh jump into some of the topics I was gonna chat with you about. Okay. So, you know, I mentioned kind of puppies, and you know, when I think of that, I kind of think of you know, those we get those labs at you know, maybe eight weeks old, and I'm sure you work with all different types of pups, but I think the majority of us in the waterfowl community mostly work with la Labrador retrievers, but I know other you know, there's other breeds I get out there. Yeah, I'd say a lot of Goldens, and but I'm sure you do some stuff with some pointers and and different pups. But I guess my my first question would be is you know, when we when we get that pup, we bring them home. What's the what should someone do the first week that they bring home a puppy?
SPEAKER_00:Number one most important thing when you first bring home a pup is to have a crate ready for them to sleep in that night.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:And not a full-size crate, an actual small crate that is just larger than the puppy. Basically, you want them confined enough to where they're comfortable and not inclined to defecate on themselves.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, and what's kind of the thought process there?
SPEAKER_00:That is gonna be that dog's home away from home. It'll be its security blanket down the road. Later on, you're gonna leave the crate open and not be able to find the dog in the house, and they're gonna be in there sleeping.
SPEAKER_01:It's kind of more what to just kind of keep them like I guess uh all the above, but kind of out of trouble, get ready for transport, you know, different things, or yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you have to understand dogs are dentning animals, so they kind of like having their own place. Okay. And so it it's natural for them to go in something.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. And what about, you know, for those folks that uh you know, maybe you know, they use the the crate, but you know, that dog's just in there crying, whimpering, scratching, everything wants everything to well, unfortunately, that is usually how it goes the first night or two.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you you just have to endure through it. Usually most most labs are are pretty easy going in that they'll scream the first night and that's it. Some of them take a few nights, but it's usually fairly quick. I have had clients tell me that we could not crate train our dog at all, and I had to give him the benefit of the doubt, and we eventually got the dog crate trained.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, okay. What about, you know, obviously, you know, first, you know, gosh God, it's been so long since I've had a puppy, but I'm trying to remember at least like the first month or so, you know, until they, you know, if they get their shots or whatever you want, however each family or each owner decides to, you know, raise their pup. But you know, talk a little bit about like, you know, when should you start with like obedience skills and you know doing different things to kind of you know socialize the pup, you know, because I don't know if it can possibly derail any sort of future training you may have in mind, or especially if they want to send them you know out to you down the road. What about things like that?
SPEAKER_00:The biggest thing I tell my clients to do to prep their dog for training is to make them drag a leash.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:It's something small, but it's profound, it preps them. It because the leash gets snagged on things, the dog learns that oh, somebody's not pulling on me all the time, my rope just got snagged on something.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:It learns them to be a little bit more giving on the pressure from the collar than if you were to hold the leash all the time.
SPEAKER_01:Interesting. That makes sense. And I'm curious, kind of, you know, obviously, we're talking about you know, gun dogs and bird dogs and whatnot. You know, I remember when I got my first pup, you know, going to kind of do the pick of the litter with my breeder at the time. And you know, I'm out there kind of like a pheasant feather on a on a string, kind of seeing which dog was the most birdie most inter interested in it. But you know, talk a little bit about the intro, you know, of birds and you know, water and stuff like that. How early should you know, you know, you introduce your pups to water and decoy and maybe even you know birds? What about that?
SPEAKER_00:So as far as birds, I like to wait until they're at least four and a half, five months old for live birds.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Dead dead birds, you can introduce them very young. And why is that? Yeah. I well dogs go through a second awareness stage around four to four and a half months, where things that are in their daily life all of a sudden become aware to them. Like it the biggest example people give me is the trash can in their kitchen. The dog will come around the corner one day and just bark at the trash can that's been there their whole life.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:And you want them to get through that stage before you introduce live fire and live birds.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I was kind of I was curious about that because then we probably, you know, getting out of the puppy stage, and maybe you know, now we're talking about as we start to think about developing them into a duck dog, you know, what age is the dog usually when you start can can actually do like some specific training towards you know, pursuit of game and you know getting out in the field with with their handler. When when is that normal?
SPEAKER_00:Well, so bird work and gun work starts at five to seven months of age for me. Okay, but for the person training their own dog, it starts with obedience as young as three months.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So I and I highly encourage people if they plan on taking their dog to a trainer to work on obedience before you take it to the trainer because it makes our life a lot easier if they have some basic foundation.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I was gonna ask about that. So it was like the earliest that you guys at Royal Gun Dogs or maybe just trainers in general, is it normally around three months? Because explain to uh to me a little bit about like you know, if you were to go through a breeder or or you know, some sort of I don't take dogs that young.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. That's just me. I I want to wait until they're five months old.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:There are other trainers that do puppy development stuff, but the way I look at it is that that time is better off spent socializing in the home, if possible.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Now there are people that aren't able to raise their dogs and need somebody to take care of them while they're young, and I understand that situation, but yeah, for the most part, they're better off in home being around the family. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Now, in your experience, and and you know, how often do you see, you know, if you're getting you know dogs between five and seven months that you know just there was no real work being done at home, or I don't want to say like obedience, but you're you're maybe having to break bad habits, you know, when they when they come and see you. How often does that happen?
SPEAKER_00:Usually the bad habits are not jumping, is the number one bad habit that I have to deal with.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:But outside of that, the number one second thing is poor socialization. And now you have to tell people that you need to be able to manhandle your dog before I get them, because if I can't pick up your dog, then we're gonna be doing socialization for the first week rather than birds.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and when you're talking about socialization, you're talking about just with you know, obviously, like other humans, other dogs, just life outside the house. Okay, all right. Because I yeah, I'm curious on that because some folks, you know, they spend all this time investing in their dog. They, you know, obviously they take great care of their dogs in the house, but you know, I've had conversations with some folks where it's like, and to each their own, and you know, I have two labs at home and they're great family dogs, they're the super friendly, all that stuff, but they are not good out in the field. Like I don't take them hunting with me because I just didn't do the training with them, and for whatever reason, we just decided that these guys would be just great family dogs. But then you see some folks that have really good field dogs, but they also run no pun intended, but also have a very tight leash on their pups where they don't have to. Okay, so and you know, where you know, don't let them socialize, you know. If they come and stay at the house, they have a crate and like and I get it, like you know, that you have to have rules and some sort of structure, but you know, I just having that balance of like letting the dog have some time off, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you you you nailed the word right there, and that's balance. Okay. And there are dogs that don't do well in they don't do well with freedom. They take advantage of it, they get into trouble. Okay. Um by and large, what I always tell people is the exact opposite. You've got your thumb on your dog too much, is what I tell people. Dog training is about balance between control and freedom. And dogs are like kids, in that if you have them underneath your thumb all the time, the second that pressure is gone, bye bye, they're on their own. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, let's jump back into kind of that duck dog development. Let's say it's you know, my dog's five to seven months, they're well socialized, you can pick them up, you know, they let me kind of do whatever I want to them. They just a lot of trust there. You know, what what does training look like during this stage? You know, are you doing like are you fine-tuning obedience? Are we jumping right into you know things that they would use out in the field, such as, you know, marking, you know, hold and fetch, water confidence, gun, gunfire? Like what what are we doing during that five to seven months?
SPEAKER_00:So in that five to seven month range, when you first bring your dog in for training with me, I'm gonna do a two to three week puppy camp. Most dogs do it in two, but it is all about birds, birds, birds, and having fun. That's cool. Really, it's it's something that carries them out through through their formal training. This is something I did not do until I started working for Steve Clausen over at Blue Ridge Kennels. Okay, he did this puppy camp, and when I first started doing it with him, I thought it was a money grab. I thought, oh boy, he's he's just trying to get as much money out of these people and send them on their way because it's a two-week program. And I'm accustomed to a three to six month program growing up with what I used to do. So it's a little bit different than what most other trainers do, but I feel that most other trainers put the cart in front of the horse by doing all this obedience and force fetch training before they ever expose the dog to gunfire. Got it. So that makes sense. Can I go and do a little spiel on my puppy camp? Yeah, let's do it. Okay, so day one starts with you coming out in the field and playing with a wing clip chucker. So we do live bird introduction on day one with the owner there. We rinse and repeat on day two, and day three is usually when I incorporate the blank pistol. Day four and day five usually are when I start introducing the shotgun low and the shotgun away. And all this time your dog should be chasing down after this bird.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So my goal for week one is to actually get the shotgun over them and shoot a bird for 'em.
SPEAKER_01:Now I have a quick question on that. You hear folks that you know just that the term gun shy. Is that something that can be trained out of a dog?
SPEAKER_00:Or just sent one home today that was taken out and shot over and ran away. It it can be done.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. But yeah, I mean, how often do you see that? Or is you know, because you know, most folks, let's just say they they live out, you know, for me, I live in the suburbs of Sacramento. You know, I can't really do any sort of live fire training or anything. I tried to always expose my dogs to different, you know, kind of noises that you'd hear kind of just out in the neighborhood, out in the street, you know, but you know, it's not until you know you you take them out to, I don't know, uh a trap range or somewhere where you know they're kind of getting exposed to it. But is there any way to kind of prepare your dog for that, or should you just say, hey, hang tight, and then you'll do it at puppy camp?
SPEAKER_00:So there is a way to basically so basically what I'm doing during the first week of the puppy camp is creating a good positive association between the noise and the bird. So you can do that or something similar, basically a large loud noise creating a reward. This goes back to people banging pots and pans before feeding their dogs. Okay. I like blowing a duck call.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Because the duck call inside the house is very loud. Yeah, I know other guys, they'll take two by fours and smack them together and then feed the dog. But I I feel a duck call is very good.
SPEAKER_01:Sure. Yeah, that makes sense. Cool. So now we're into a couple days of puppy camp there. You know what does the rest of the program look like uh as far as the puppy camp goes?
SPEAKER_00:So goal for week one is to get the shotgun over them and hopefully develop a natural desire to retrieve live birds. Goal for week two, it sounds simple, but it's not, is to teach them that the birds no longer come out of my pocket. Okay, they have to go out and find them.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So at the end of a two to three-week camp, you don't have a finished dog by any means, but you have a dog that knows the basics of what its job is, which is the birds are out in the field. I go find them, produce them, he shoots them, I bring them back. Okay, it sounds very simple, but it's it's something that a dog needs to learn before you take them out hunting. Otherwise, it's gonna be on-the-job training in that respect, takes a lot longer and it may not be successful. Sure. Really, I want my dogs excited about birds before I ever take them out into the elements. That makes a ton of sense. Last thing you want to do is to take a puppy that is not overly excited about birds out into a cold duck blind and shoot over them. Odds are they're not gonna like their experience, even though they did have fun chasing that bird down, it wasn't the highlight of their day. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, unfortunately, we hear too many examples of that happening. And and and honestly, if I were to rewind, you know, what six, seven years, that's very similar to probably the experience that I had with my oldest pup, you know. And it's easy to say gun shy and all that. I mean, she's obviously extremely birdie, like, you know, loves birds, all that, but to your point, the overall experience, right? So that makes a ton of sense. So so you know, let's fast forward a little bit. Yeah, so we're through puppy camp, the the two weeks. At this point, do they go home? Do you can you on to the next step? Like, do you is there a do you recommend a little break in between camp and maybe when training picks up again?
SPEAKER_00:That's entirely up to the owner. Okay. I'm I'm flexible on that. But what I always warn people is that we dog trainers have a saying that dogs get out their notebook and start making a checklist of what their life is at about nine to eleven months of age.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:And if you have don't if you don't have things on there like birds, the shotgun, force fetch, and obedience, it can be a little bit harder to incorporate in their life later on.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I that yeah, I I get that. So let's say I'm I said, hey Richard, let's let's just keep it going. You know, my dog loved camp. You said she she did really well. You know, let's on to the next step. So what does that look like?
SPEAKER_00:So after I'm done with the puppy camp and I know we have a a gunner, uh a gun dog, then we start informal obedience. Uh that usually takes me about anywhere from 10 to 21 days of obedience before I start working on force fetch.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. And what and what are you doing during the at that level of obedience training?
SPEAKER_00:Very basic hear, heel, sit kennel. I don't teach my dogs to lay down until the last two weeks of a three-month program. And how come well, what's that about? Laying down is a submissive position. And so if you teach your dog to lay down too soon, that'll be their go-to response.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Ultimately, you do want your dog to lay down because he's gonna be hiding in the blind with you.
SPEAKER_01:Sure. Yeah, that's that was gonna be my question, but I know you said you'd do it the last couple of weeks, so I knew eventually you did it, but that was gonna be one of my questions.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's so it's it's a submissive position, and people always ask, well, why is that a problem? And it's a problem because, well, number one, I get dogs from time to time that have been through uh puppy camp or puppy obedience classes, and they do heel here, sit down, stay. And I tell the dog he come here, and the dog will come to my side and lay down. So that's just too much repetition of the same routine. Yeah, that's number one. Number two, and this is more important for a dog that is gonna be doing blind retrieves. When you start blowing a sit whistle for your dog out at a hundred yards, the last thing you want them to do is to lay down on you. Okay, because you can't see them and they can't see you, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so we're through obedient training. So let's just say two and a half to three weeks there. So you call me as the owner and say, hey, we're still on track here, you know, pups doing great. You know, what what does the next month or so look like?
SPEAKER_00:Next six to eight weeks entails force fetch. And that sounds like a long time, but to do a thorough job these days, that's that's pretty much par for the course for most bred dogs these days.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Occasionally from time to time, I get a dog that does force fetch in two weeks, and I call the owner immediately and say, Hey, do you want to have hand signals in this dog's repertoire because they're a good student? And nine times out of ten, they would like that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So, and I know we're not even through your program yet, but if I'm thinking about it, we got two weeks of puppy camp. Let's just call it on average two weeks of obedience training, six to eight weeks. If I heard you write, of force fetch, right? So we're looking at, you know, so what are we at? Two to three months right now? Yeah, two and a half. Yeah, two and a half, okay. And you know, if we keep going, what what what's after force fetch and hand signals and all that? So and and and and how often is the owner coming out or do you recommend the owner comes out and works with you, the pup? Do they come out on weekends to kind of practice what they learned all week, or is it kind of, hey, stay out of here, we'll call you when it's time, or or what do you I'm fairly flexible and it's really dependent upon the dog's demeanor.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. If I have a dog that is doing really well, has a high demeanor, I want you to come out and see the dog's progress as much as possible because you need to learn how to handle the dog. Because if I'm having fun training it, you need to basically learn how to work this tool because they're gonna be a good one.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, because because I guess that that's kind of my question is, and maybe at some point during your program you'll uh they'll come out, but you know, sorry, both dogs are over here shaking around. If you know you're working on the hand signals and all the different commands and stuff, I'm sure it's equally as important that you train me as well, or uh yeah, or how does that work?
SPEAKER_00:When it comes to hand signals, I can train you much better after the dog has completed their basics on hand signals. Okay. If they're learning, I want to be the one handling the dog because you will not be timely in your response. Yeah, that's the biggest thing I deal with when dogs start handling, is people are too slow to respond, and when they give a cast, the dog goes the wrong direction and they hit the caller, the e-caller, sure, and give them a correction. And I have to tell them no, you can't do that. The dog is still learning. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So after force fetch, you know, we're I think you said two and a half months in. What what's after that?
SPEAKER_00:After force fetch for a basic waterfowl program, we're then going into basic. Well, I have to include that force fetch includes a water retrieve, not just on land. Okay. That's why it takes six to eight weeks because it includes bringing the bird out of the water.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So that's that's basically their water introduction with me, is is through force fetch.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:I don't push the issue beforehand. If they want to get in the water, they can, but I don't push the issue until we have tools at our disposal to actually get them to do the job that we want them to do. Got it. I may have to get my waiters on and get in there with them, but I'm gonna get it done.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And and then obviously, after retrieving, what else do we have going on?
SPEAKER_00:Basic hunting scenario introductions. So introductions to decoys, introductions to dog hides, they're gonna have an exposure to dog stands every day throughout their three-month program.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so uh do you when you meet with your clients, do you like it? I don't want to say your training cookie cutter because I know it's not because every dog's different, but you know, is your program for waterfowl like kind of set in in stone? Or if you say, hey, I mostly hunt rice fields, you know, we don't really spend a lot of time in the marsh, so they're not gonna necessarily be up on dog stands, they're gonna be more in dog hides. Like, can you gear your training more towards that? Or is it kind of like, hey, to well round your dog, we want to train them to be up on a stand in a marsh, or down, you know, 30 for 30 yards down the check in a hide, you know.
SPEAKER_00:It's the latter. You want them to be versatile.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00:It's one of those things where I'm thinking I'm jumping ahead here, but it all starts at your side. Okay. You have to be able to get a dog that works with you at your side before you can get any sort of control out away from you. So with steadiness, I have to have a dog that'll sit next to me before I ever put them on a dog stand and expect them to be steady. Makes sense.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So we're into kind of our hunt scenarios and different things. All right, can I come get my dog now or or what else do we got?
SPEAKER_00:Let me see. Well, I didn't include e-collar conditioning in there. That's included in your basic obedience. Okay. So your dog will be e-collar conditioned through that. Once we get past the basic introductions of the hunting scenarios, then we actually start throwing more birds. So actually throwing marks.
SPEAKER_01:So I have kind of like a novice question, is like I understand like the e-collar conditioning totally makes sense, but I've also seen some pups where they and and I don't know if if it's the same meant for the same purpose, but you know, you you give the dog the command to go out and get the bird, you know, they're sitting steady, they, you know, whatever whatever the word is to release them, they go out and get the bird, and maybe they're a little off or whatever. So I see some people hit like a little double whistle or something, and then the dog looks, and then you kind of do the hand signals and whatnot. So is that kind of the same thing when it comes to an e-caller where like you know, you can different ways to get the attention of your pup, or do each one do they serve different purposes?
SPEAKER_00:No, an e-caller is is a corrective tool. Okay. Basically, it it's using negative reinforcement to basically get the dog to do a trained response. Okay. Not not teach it, but to to get them to respond to a known response. Got it. Okay. So one thing people all the time tell me, Oh, I have a collar on my dog, but I never use it. I'll I'll use the tone or I will use the vibrate. And if they don't listen to that, then I'll shock them and they always listen. And I laugh and say, Okay, so your dog doesn't know how to shut the e-collar off. And I go, What do you mean? Well, your dog's natural response to the caller is to come back to you. It's fight, flight, or freeze is the response, and there's a flight from it, and they're going back to a secure location, which is you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And what what is their response normally?
SPEAKER_00:They they get a little flustered, and then I explain to them that you have to teach a dog how to shut it off, you have to show them. And I like to do that with here or come here. Basically, a dog in a in a stationary position sitting and a slight pull on the leash and a tickle on the e-collar, and it doesn't take very long before they realize that oh, I get that tickle, and as soon as I proceed towards him, it goes away. That's how you teach a dog to shut off the collar. Got it. Okay. And very soon you'll with the timing, there's plenty of stuff online about three action introduction. If you really want to know how to do a proper e-caller introduction, look up Tritronics 3 action introduction.
SPEAKER_01:Tritronics 3 action introduction. Yes. Okay. Sounds good. We'll have to take a peek at that. So puppy camp, obedience training, force fetch, hunt scenarios, e-caller.
SPEAKER_00:What what else do we got? Marking. Marking's a big one. I don't do a whole lot of it before a dog goes home for the basics. Okay. But if a dog is going to stay with me to do hand signals or more advanced training into steadiness, then they're going to get a lot of marking. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:And how long does that program look like?
SPEAKER_00:It it depends. If you just want a dog that's steady, it's an additional month.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:If you want hand signals, it's going to be around anywhere from three to six months. Okay. Depending upon the dog. Yeah. Some are a lot quicker. The ones that go through force fetch generally go through hand signals a lot faster.
SPEAKER_01:So I I'm curious on this because and I I this might be like the unpopular like opinion. People might be like, Yeah, well, that's on you. You know, you didn't do the work or whatever. But you know, our issue for my family was it's really hard for us to send our dog, dog or dogs away for a extended period of time, right? Like They are our family. And while, yes, I I agree they are a great tool, great conservation tool, great hunting partner, first and foremost, these are part of our family. So now we're getting to the point where it was just tough for us to be like, yeah, we can't send our pup away for, you know, two, three, four months, you know. And, you know, so I is it just one of those, like, hey, you know, because especially if you're saying, you know, you don't start between five to seven months. Well, I've had this dog at home for the last three, four, five months, you know, just loving it, a puppy, all that, and then all of a sudden we have to send them away for a while. So what do you kind of say say to to that to folks that might be a little hesitant based on like, wow, this is a this is a time commitment, you know. It's a it is, you know, especially if you if you want, if I say, Hey Richard, I want all the bells and whistles, I want hand signals, I want this, I want that, I want all the marking, you know. You know, it can be, it sounds like we're getting up to uh nine months if I'm or longer, or longer, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, yeah, depending upon the dog and what level you want to get them to. Yeah. It it really depends on the dog as far as duration.
SPEAKER_01:Now, and I'm sure, like, I mean, there are there have to be some pups that just you know, no matter how good of a trainer you are, just dog, they have to have a ceiling, I would think, or is that not the case?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, there are dogs that plateau, yeah. What do they call it? They plateau basically, they peak at their their maximum potential, and if you push them farther, they're just gonna fall off a cliff.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So let's take it back then. So let's say I have a puppy or a dog that's less than one, and you know, just a regular weekend warrior waterfowl. You might you you might have a rice blind, you know, up in Sack Valley. You you know, maybe go out every Saturday or so, or maybe you know, you go out to the refuge, I don't know, a couple times a month. You know, you're you're not, you know, some crazy hunter, but you know what at the very least, what you know, can you get away with just puppy camp and obedience training, or is that not enough to get them out in the field just to go retrieve the birds and have a good day, but also go home and you know, I know you you like them in the kennel, but rest in front of the fireplace at night, you know, yeah, shut it down. Is that enough training there?
SPEAKER_00:Or I mean it it's all personal preference. I I get a lot of people that just do the puppy camp with their dog and then do the rest themselves, yeah, and are very happy with it. Yeah, then you get people that I tell them their dog needs to be force fetched in order to be reliable, and they they take them hunting, and halfway through the season I get a phone call and say, Hey, can you take them?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I guess like with anything, you get uh you get out of something what you put in, or you know, you get what you pay, you know, that type of thing. So I I I definitely I get that. But you know, it seems like some you see some guys just out in like you know, refuge parking lot, or you know, you you just catch up with them somewhere up in the the valley, and you know, they don't they just kind of naturally just fell into a duck dog, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Um and a lot of people get away with that. These retrievers are very, very malleable and they're they take a lot of abuse without looking back at you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um and gunfire is the number one example of that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I think I think what's important to me, and and and uh I think a lot of folks, it's like sure, can your dog go out and might not have the best blind manners, but if you're there by you know by yourself or whatnot, but for me, a lot of it has to do with just you want the dog to be successful, but first and foremost, you want the dog to be in a safe environment too, right? So if they don't have the blind manners or the obedience to you know heal, stay, whatever, you know, to not break, especially if you're hunting with other folks. I mean, we all hear about the tragic accidents that happen, and you know, so I I realize I'm speaking out of both ends here, where it's like, oh, I just want a dog that I can take out on a Saturday, but at the same time, I want to be able to bring that pup home too.
SPEAKER_00:You know, so and and that leads into what I recommend for every dog, no matter their training level, their first season, they should be staked out on a quick release. Yeah, um, they're very cheap these days. If you hunt from a rice blind, a C clamp works great to hold them down.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and and you know what? I know I know some folks that I hunt with that, you know, their dogs, great manners, listen really well, but um, and and don't have like the tendency to break or or whatnot, but they still just out of abundance of caution, and I think it's out of habit, they still use those tie-downs. And you know what? Like, I I can't blame them, you know what I mean? Um especially you figure some of the like investment, but also once again, it's part of the family. Uh so well, right on. So as far as you know, your your send-away program, did we touch on everything or am I bringing my pup home now, or what what does it look like before what are what are kind of the last steps before I can take my dog home?
SPEAKER_00:For basics, that that is the last step, is is basically the introduction to hunting scenarios and basic marking. If you want more advanced work like steadiness, we'll do a month of marking and working on steadiness. And and what what what does that mean? Sorry, steadiness. Steadiness as far as being sitting or laying down waiting to be released to retrieve. Okay, got it.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. And you know, you were talking about hunt scenarios and whatnot, and you know, I I just had a question, and it had to do kind of like when we think about our the way we hunt here in you know Northern California, or just you know, even if you get a dog from out of state or whatnot, do you work with them on like I'm not sure I I haven't been out to your property and and I'm familiar with the area, but you know, how do you simulate, you know, a rice check or you know, whether it's being in the marsh, or do you do any sort of like you know, retrieving from boats or anything like that? Do you do any sort of specific hunt scenarios?
SPEAKER_00:So I don't have access to most like marshy areas. I don't take dogs into that because that's fairly commonplace for people to get access to. Primarily the the two biggest things that people don't have access to is thick cover on land and deep swimming water ponds. Okay. So basically during the last two weeks, your dog gets thrown into those two. And Hastings Island is full of thick coverage. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I I I have a question for you as far as like when it comes to training or you know, you're mentioning honoring other dogs. Do you work that into your program as well? Because like it's been a while since I've been on a hunt with multiple pups, but I know it happens. Do you train that as well?
SPEAKER_00:What I like to do is I like to get people out that have dogs that are working on steadiness and uh have a little line of dogs and and basically throw birds for each one of them, making them all work together. Yeah, that's I feel that's the best ways if if I take two dogs out and make them honor one another, it's very different than if I have a line of dogs and handlers they're honoring. Yeah. Dogs are very competitive. Okay. When you get a line of dogs together, that it brings out the worst in their competitive nature. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:What about, you know, when you talk about the hunt training? How do you go about training, like, you know, when it comes to dealing with like, you know, cripples or whatnot? I understand like when you're maybe training out in the water, you know, you throw a live bird out there, or you know, you throw a bird out that just is kind of sitting there dead in the water, but what you know, uh how do you train like you know, cripples are chasing them down? Or, you know, we all seen it where birds kind of the dog's on it, the bird goes down and dives down and and maybe still has a little life in it, and the dog's just kind of spinning in a circle. Like, how do you train that?
SPEAKER_00:So it all starts with the trucker. Okay. Partridge, trucker, trucker, partridge, whichever you want to call it. They like to burrow into the grass.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So it all starts with that puppy camp, the first two weeks.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:That that chasing of the bird really follows them throughout their life. There's not really much on-the-job training you have to do with a dog once they figure out the smell of blood and they like birds, they're gonna go after it. If you have a dog that has problems with diving birds, and there are some dogs that do, you can remedy that by taking an anchor and a line and floating a bumper out in a canal and pulling it underneath the water surface. That makes sense. I have been successful with that for dogs teaching them to dip their head underwater. Yeah. But by and large, you you don't really have to teach them those things, they kind of learn that on the job.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, right on. Well, you know, we're we're coming up on an hour here, but I said a couple more questions, and then I want to kind of hit you with some of these kind of quick questions that maybe just like a quick answer. But you know, last couple questions I have when it comes to you know the training program and and what that looks like is what sort of homework or or at home training, once you know we get our pup at the end of your program, how often should we be working with that dog during season, off season? Really, how much training, you know, because especially if folks are going out a couple times a week, is there much training going on during the season at home or no?
SPEAKER_02:Um how does that work?
SPEAKER_00:So a lot there to cover. Sure. Um so basically when you bring your dog home from a basic waterfowl program, you should maintain your basic obedience daily in the house, on walks. I get people that ask me how to maintain their obedience for for just general obedience dogs, and I tell them you live in a suburb, right? Yes. So that's your job is to take your dog on walks that are structured. So you make your dog heel with you across the street and sit at the every edge, every corner, and then let them go about their business in between. And essentially it does two things it maintains your obedience and it also teaches the dogs not to enter the street without you. Yeah. That's a very simple thing you can do to maintain your obedience. Um duration. If you're training your own dog without me, you really only need 10 to 15 minutes a day.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Doing it more than that, you you really are overdoing it.
SPEAKER_01:Then that was that was my question, right? Is yeah, yeah, I understand repetition and all that, but to your point, yeah, at what point are you overdoing it? That that was really what I was curious about.
SPEAKER_00:Now I know this is gonna sound this is gonna sound weird, but I've learned through years that with dog training, most of the time, less is more.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00:I I get more out of dogs if I let them be dogs. It's one of those things. If I'm the drill sergeant, the wrestling coach all the time, I don't get very far with them. If I do structured training and then let them be a dog, they're much more tractable with me.
SPEAKER_01:What about you know, I know you said less is more, but now I'm kind of thinking off-season. Like the uh what about like tune-up programs? You know, like hey, a season's gone by and either A, everything worked out the way that you and I and intended, or B, like, hey, there's something that, you know, just maybe some finishing or whatnot. Like, do you offer any sort of like tune-up programs or or things where it's like, hey, they went through the whole eight-month, nine-month program with you, but they're still struggling with X. Do you offer any sort of that? That kind of program?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, and and that duration-wise really depends on the dog's level and and and the problem. Yeah, most of the time, what people want after their puppy camp is they want the dog to come back to be more reliable in the blind as far as steadiness, and they want hand signals. Yeah. Okay, but steadiness is a big one. What I recommend is stake them out during the first season and bring them back after the season, and we'll firm up steadiness with live birds even more.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, right on. Well, you know, before we close out here, I I want to I just had a few questions that are kind of just real quick ones. I think this first one you may have already answered, but I'm curious to hear what you have to say about it. Let's say someone calls and says, uh, hey, my dog breaks at the shot. How do I fix it? Is it as simple as just using one of those tie downs? I mean, obviously, I know there's there's more training that goes into it, but does it start with that? Because you don't want to you don't want to hurt the dog. Meaning, like you know, you got one of those like you know, things just wedged into the check and and you know, they break and all of a sudden their head snaps, you know what I mean? Like, or they they bounce back. But you know, how do what's kind of a I don't say a quick fix? I don't think anything's a quick fix.
SPEAKER_00:Not a quick fix. It's it comes into wearing two hats when you're hunting. You gotta have your hunting hat and your dog training hat. Yes. You always gotta have your dog training hat and your backpack ready to roll. Yeah. And that's essentially what you have to do is is take the hunting hat off and put your dog training hat on and put the gun down for a little while and work your dog.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Got it. No, that makes sense. And now is this something that you know you just kind of work on during the hunt, or you're like, hey, you know what, we're gonna practice this at the house, or it's like, hey, I gotta get Richard a call, or is it kind of can it be all of the above?
SPEAKER_00:All the above.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Do do what you can in the moment. If you're not able to be successful just by switching hats, then you may need to work on training at home or seek professional help.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. We didn't talk too much about this one during when you know your your training program. You know, uh, we I have experience with this where you know you're out and you know, maybe it could be a young dog, heck I've even seen some older dogs where especially early in the morning, we're sitting in the blind, you know, birds are starting to fly, they see us getting all excited, you know, we're our eyes to the sky, and the dog's just whining a lot and whimpering, and just you know, uh as the day goes on, they settle down. But you know, it's just like, hey, quiet, you know, quiet, you know, because it's pretty loud in the morning. And then, you know, just the other day, one of my buddies, you know, he was kind of this com happens quite a bit where you know the dog's out on a retrieve, and as it's you know, maybe chasing down a bird or heading out there, you know, he's barking the whole time while swimming. So, and I mean, once again, quiet morning, that sound can travel through a pond, and you know, anything that you know we're thinking that might be in the area is you know, heading out because that pup's letting you know the the whole refuge or field know, hey, we're out here. So is there anything that could be done with that?
SPEAKER_00:Whining in the blind you can go at it directly with a pinch collar.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:I do not recommend using a shock collar to deal with whining in the blind.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Some dogs they they're responsive to the e-caller, and you'll find out really quickly. But most dogs, when you hit them with the shock collar, it only makes them noisier.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Yeah, and a lot of times there is like that other yelp, and then yeah, to your point, they just it seems to the pitch seems to pick up a little bit.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it increases their anxiety, it just it it doesn't seem it's not a cure all for sure.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and it and it's tough because like I said, it's with my experience with you know these pups that I'm thinking about, as soon as they, you know, get a retriever or two under them, they've settled in, right? And now they're they're like, okay, it's on, but it's like, how do we start that way, right? So especially foundation work, yeah. Obedience. Yeah. And then this one I I'm actually curious for myself, and and I'm curious to hear what you're gonna say, because you you mentioned that kind of nine-month checklist or you know, the task list that dogs are you know accustomed to. Can older dogs still be trained? And when I say older, I'm thinking two, three, four, five years old, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Well, other dog trainers are gonna hate me for saying this, but yes, they can. Okay. I had I had a dog, Sparky, who was I don't know, I think six or seven years old. Yeah, he came in, the owners won a raffle and won a free week of training. And they wanted me to work on fetch, and I told them I couldn't do much in a week. And they said, Okay, well, we'll pay for a second week and see what you can do. Yeah. Well, to my surprise, I got that dog picking up a bird in two weeks. Nice. And he was not picking up birds at all, and he delivered the hand, and I told the owners, I said, uh, you know, I didn't think this was gonna happen, but it did.
SPEAKER_01:So you know, I I kind of along the older dogs, but this might and you you don't have to answer, but in your professional opinion, and this could be kind of controversial, I I am curious. You hear a lot about, you know, especially when we think of labs, certain colors being more trainable than others or whatnot. Is in your professional opinion, do you see that to be the case, or are some more stubborn than others? Like, you know, uh you understand what I'm asking? Like you know, chocolates versus black labs, or you know, or error, and I'll even take it a step further. What what about in like your professional opinion when it comes to like male versus female dogs? Is that a whole nother episode?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, okay. No, I mean it it really depends. When you're talking about color, they're all different. Yeah. I wouldn't say that they're Better or worse, depending upon the color. They're just different. Okay. What I always tell people though is that black is the dominant color.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So in the gene pool when you when you're going after a pup, you're looking for performance if you are a duck hunter, not for color or anything else. That should be secondary. Okay. You should be looking for performance in the pedigree. A lot of people are very keen on picking color first and then looking at the pedigree, and that's not the way I would recommend going about it. Black's the dominant color, so by and large, there are more titled dogs that are black than yellow or chocolate. But as time goes on, there are more and more chocolates and yellows that are performing at the same level. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Now what about that makes sense for color? Just can you give me a quick answer on male or female dogs?
SPEAKER_00:Well the only drawback of having a male dog is they pee on things and they like to fight. Yeah. The only drawback of a female dog is that if you have a dominant bitch, she's gonna want to fight too. Yeah. So it it's not saying, oh, you should just get one to resolve that issue of fighting because you can have one that's dominant.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah, it's been interesting because you know, my experience when it comes to male or female dogs is it's not so much with the training, but especially when it comes in the waterfowl community, you see different places like different clubs that might have different rules for you know male, female dogs. Obviously, when you go out, you hear all the time where you know folks are gonna go out to a blind together. Oh, I'm gonna leave my dog in the truck today because you know, just uh avoid any sort of conflicts out there, right? So that that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Well, right on. Well, we're gonna wrap things up. Is there anything that we missed? I know we can keep talking forever, but kind of the things we touched on. Well, I'd like to answer your last question. Which one's that? Oh, yeah. Your top tip, my from yeah, yeah. So yeah, so for the listeners out there, if you're listening and you want your dog to be rock solid by next season. I mean, I know we're in the middle of this season, but if you want to be ready to go by waterfowl season 2026, according to Richard, what are the top three things they should start today?
SPEAKER_00:Number one is get a game plan, aka birds. Number two, build a strong foundation, otherwise known as obedience and force fetch. And number three is let the dog determine the pace of your training. And I go into this with a Rex Car uh philosophy in that if you train for momentum, perfection will follow. So don't go into training thinking that your dog has to be perfect before you move on.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:No, that that makes sense. And honestly, that last piece right there was like letting the kind of the dog dictate, you know, how'd you say it dictate kind of like the flow, not the flow, but the pace. The pace, right? And I think that's important because I think you know, obviously, the conversations I've had in my house is like there's been concerns about like, well, what happens when we send the dog off? Because once again, we love having that family dog, that kind of unique, quirky personality that we have with my chocolate lab and my black lab here. But at the same time, you know, I think that it comes down to just the style of the trainer, and that that's good to hear that you know that's kind of your philosophy there. So well, right on. Well, yeah, if there's nothing else, man, I I really want to thank you for coming on, Richard. And you know, for any of the listeners that are interested in getting a hold of you, what's the what's the best way? Do you you recommend Instagram, email?
SPEAKER_00:Instagram, royal.gundogs on Instagram. Yeah, okay. Or you can email me at royalgundogs at yahoo.com. Awesome.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and then what's I know it's a long program that you have there, but you know, just call year round or what what is it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's on a rotating schedule.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, perfect. Awesome. Well, once again, Richard, we really appreciate you coming on. And yeah, uh, make sure to uh check out his Instagram, uh Royal Gun Dogs, and uh you know, make sure that you're following for the Fowlers on Instagram as well if you're not, and continue to rate and review the podcast on uh Spotify, Apple. Don't forget we're on YouTube for the audio channel as well. And yeah, we will chat with you all soon.